Potassium Permanganate

[dizkuz]

Hi to u all discus freakz out there!

Im new to this thing PP but i got it!
So i have been thinking to do a Stock Solution "sounds that the safest way to go"
But the problem is that i have no scale that kan handle low whight as Mg
just 1g 10g on n on!
And the other problem is i have seen so many way too make this Stock Solution.
So my question to u all people out there that have done this, please give me some light over this question!

How did u maked your Stock Solution?????

quote

"Use of a Stock Solution
An alternative method of measuring potassium permanganate is to mix a stock solution. A stock solution is a concentrated solution of chemical from which small amounts can be taken to treat tanks as needed. This is useful when either multiple tanks or multiple treatments are needed. An easy way to make up a stock solution for potassium permanganate is to purchase a one-gallon bottle of distilled water, weigh 285 grams of potassium permanganate, add it to the solution, and mix thoroughly. This stock solution will deliver a dose of 1 mg/L when delivered at a rate of one drop per gallon. Therefore, to achieve the desired concentration of 2 mg/L, the stock solution can be delivered at a rate of 2 drops per gallon. The stock solution should be stored in a cool, dark area and be replaced annually.

Any one that have used this Stock Solution???

"Weigh 285 grams of potassium permanganate,"

Sounds much from what i Have seen in other Stock Solution,
Is this correct???

Regards dizkuz!

[Greg Richardson]

You are correct. There is about 1000 ways that people have to use PP.
I make up a solution in the way it is described below by Carrol.
She did a fantastic job n this article!

Remember your water may, or may not stay purple 2 hours, or 4 hours or even 1 hour sometimes.

Fact is it depends on what is in your water at the time.

When it starts to turn brown or orange use the peroxide and be done with it. Imo the usefulness of the PP is over with.

Some experts leave it in 24 hours. I don't understand why and never have got a clear answer what good it does once purple is done imo the usefulness of the product is done.

Here is the bottom line on using PP.................

So simple but fact remains time after time if you here someone complaining about PP and how it's bad if you are able to get honest answers out of them after grilling them you'll find out they stopped watching their fish and that's when the PP hit the fan.

You need to stay by your tank glancing over at them.
PP is SAFE to use if you are attentive. Otherwise you playing with fire. I have never had any problems with it. Even my BN's get treatment. According to others they are suppose to die. Lot of myths in the discus world.


http://www.discusnada.org/
Click on Newsletter. Page 12

How To Use Potassium Permanganate by Carol Roberts


You can’t find potassium permanganate (PP) on the shelves of
your local fish store or online fish catalog. This purple crystal,
which is used by discus hobbyists to kill bacteria, external
pests, like gill flukes and reduce the bio-load in fish tanks can
be found at stores that sell home water softener equipment. I
purchased mine at Sears.
Potassium Permanganate and its antidote Hydrogen
Peroxide
Most hobbyists’ only need a small amount of potassium permanganate
like the 6 oz. Bottle pictured above. Hydrogen Peroxide
(HP) should always be kept on hand when using PP. It is
an antidote and can be added to the tank if the fish are in distress
from the PP treatment. I add it to the tank to neutralize
the PP at the end of the 4-hour treatment. Hydrogen peroxide
can be found in grocery and drug stores everywhere.
To make the stock solution pictured above I used a clean pint bottle filled with tap water and added 1/8 teaspoon
potassium permanganate crystals. This solution can be stored in a cool dark cupboard for several months.



Four Hour Tank Treatment.
I leave the empty filter running on the tank and cycle the PP
through it. This cleans the filter housing and aerates the tank
during treatment. Wipe down walls and floor of tank. Wipe off
the heater, cords, airline tubing and any decorations in the tank.
Add 4 ml of the stock solution per gallon of aquarium water.
Another way to measure is 5 tablespoons per TEN gallons of
aquarium water. You want the water to turn a rich purple color
and keep that color for the full four hours. If the water turns
rusty, tan or orangey the PP has stopped working.
At the end of four hours I add 3% Hydrogen Peroxide one capful at a time until the water turns clear. Wait a couple
minutes for the hydrogen peroxide to work before adding more. A more accurate way to measure is to add 5 ml per
gallons of tank water. Then I do a 50% water change vacuuming the bottom thoroughly. Don’t forget to rinse the filter
media in de-chlorinated water before returning it to the filter. Treatment can be repeated in one week if needed.
The tank water should be purple for the full four hours.

[lhforbes12]

http://aquariafreaks.com/VB/showthread.php?t=31 Shameless since I wrote it

[Graham]

Good essay ..............the only thing that I would add.... is if you are doing treatments several days in a row the hydrogen peroxide will not have had time to dissapiate in 24 hours. So the 2nd day you may find that the PP turns tea coloured very quickly.......

What is generally reccomended in the ponding end of things is not to stop the treatment allow the PP to run it's course...Yes,the water will look like crap but is very safe and 2ppm is a very safe dose...and then the next day do your 2nd dose and let it run it's course...once you've finished all treatments then clear the water with H2O2 and give them a good water change. Adding AC will also clear the water of the brown colouration.

As has been mentioned, increase O2 as much as possible and PP is not a ''more is better'' chem...it will kill your fish if you blow the dose...been there

[Jeff]

If you have an extra tank you can experiment just putting a small amount in it. A pinch is usually all that is needed for a 55-60 gallon tank to stay purple for a few hours. Try it without fish in it and see.

[dizkuz]

Thanks to u all for the ansers!

qoute
"At the end of four hours I add 3% Hydrogen Peroxide one capful at a time until the water turns clear. Wait a couple
minutes for the hydrogen peroxide to work before adding more"

Hydrogen peroxide i have found is a solution at 35%.
Or is it totally to strong and i need to do stock Solution at that one also?

[lhforbes12]

Thanks to u all for the ansers!

qoute
"At the end of four hours I add 3% Hydrogen Peroxide one capful at a time until the water turns clear. Wait a couple
minutes for the hydrogen peroxide to work before adding more"

Hydrogen peroxide i have found is a solution at 35%.
Or is it totally to strong and i need to do stock Solution at that one also?

I use it right out of the bottle, adding 5 ml at a time

[kaceyo]

Larry is talking about the 3% when he says to use 5ml at a time, not the 35%. I'd get some standard 3% from the grocery or drug store to use for PP deactivation. 35% is too strong and unforgiving to mess with in this case.

Kacey

P.S. Does anybody else see a problem with the dosing table for the stock solution in the link to fishgeeks? If the author is correct in that the entire contents of the 1,000 ml bottle of stock solution will treat 2,000 gals at 2ppm (and it is correct) then how does 1ml of stock turn 1gal to 1ppm? Or am I reading it wrong somewhere?

P.S.S. It should read 1ml treats 1gal at 4ppm.

[lhforbes12]

Larry is talking about the 3% when he says to use 5ml at a time, not the 35%. I'd get some standard 3% from the grocery or drug store to use for PP deactivation. 35% is too strong and unforgiving to mess with in this case.

Kacey

P.S. Does anybody else see a problem with the dosing table for the stock solution in the link to fishgeeks? If the author is correct in that the entire contents of the 1,000 ml bottle of stock solution will treat 2,000 gals at 2ppm (and it is correct) then how does 1ml of stock turn 1gal to 1ppm? Or am I reading it wrong somewhere?

Kacey,
Hmmmm you got me on both points. I'll need to edit the text on that link, thanks. It should read 0.5 ml will treat 1 gallon at 1 ppm, or 1 ml will treat 1 gallon at 2 ppm. That is a rather large oooops on my part.

[dizkuz]

qoute
"Larry is talking about the 3% when he says to use 5ml at a time, not the 35%. I'd get some standard 3% from the grocery or drug store to use for PP deactivation. 35% is too strong and unforgiving to mess with in this case."

True Keceyo!! Thats why i asked about doing a stock Solution from the 35% Hydrogen Peroxide, but i guess i can try to search for the 3% instead.

I saw someone wrote that if the Water are too soft the PP solution will be smaller or else u will have air problem in the water, and they will die!!
any truth in This?
Are there any water index that u will have to check before u add it?


quote
"P.S. Does anybody else see a problem with the dosing table for the stock solution "

It didnt add up for me either!
So i think i will go for carols stock solution

PS please post more solution.
regards Dizkuz

[pcsb23]

PP is more dangerous in alkaline water than acid water it is is more toxic at higher pH. In alkaline conditions a solid precipitate of manganese dioxide (MnO2) can form on gills. This can cause respiratory problems by blocking the gills. Additionally, MnO2 is a strong oxidising agent and presumably in such a situation could cause other gill-tissue damage.

I always do a as large a w/c as possible before using it, and I always wipe down before use too, remove as much organic matter as possible. I use a 2ppm dose in tanks. At this level its both safe and effective. I always do a w/c as soon as possible after too!

I use 35% h2o2 to neutralise, I use a 5ml syringe, very accurate and easy control, depending on tank size, 2 or 3 drops at a time and wait works well, smaller the tank fewer drops each time. Be careful with it though it is corrosive on your skin.

I also turn out any lights too!

hth,

[Greg Richardson]

I also turn out any lights too!

Paul. I have been keeping mine on in order to tell better how the fish are reacting. What is your reasoning behind lights off? Does PP react to it?
Or is this a fish stress issue?

[Graham]

Light has nothing to do with PP doses...if that was the case then no ponder would ever be able to use it...........UV's light should be turned off for long doses as they will affect the PP...

I've seen my fish feed with a dose of PP in the water so it can't be all that stressful

As far as pH affecting it toxicity ..that's the first that I've ever heard about that...it's regularly used by ponders with pH's up to 9.0 with out any side affects on the fish.

The fish may form a slight brown tinge on their skin from the MnO2 but I've never seen it hurt any fish and we use it up to the 4ppm dose maintaining that dose doe up 8 hours......2ppm is a much safer dose, mind you.

PP should always be weighed out with a gram scale...or dosed using a syringe...lots of fish have been killed by blowing a dose. The ideal way to use PP is with an ORP meter and maintianing the dose in the 500mv range....

G

[pcsb23]

Paul. I have been keeping mine on in order to tell better how the fish are reacting. What is your reasoning behind lights off? Does PP react to it?
Or is this a fish stress issue?

If you run PP under strong lighting the colour goes quicker thanif you don't. I have done this to prove it to myself, unlikely I blew a dose as I used the same volume of the same water and used a syringe with the same stock solution. Reasonable assumption is if the colour is affected so is the PP.

Also the fish will be less stressed by lower light levels, if for no other reason this is good enough for me.

I remmeber reading about the deposits which I think is MnO2 somewhere, funny how things stick.

[Graham]

Paul like I mentioned this is something that I've never heard of...little hard to turn sunlight off...just because the colour goes off a bit doesn't mean that it's lost it's punch...just means it's oxidizing something..the colour should be a gradual decrease from purple to tan/tea to brown. The only way to know for sure would be to use an ORP meter and watch the readings decrase

I'll post this to Doc Conrod ...''King of the Purple Cult"

G