Good Potassium Permanganate Article

[scans]

Been looking around for as much info as possible before I jump into this one (KMnO4). I found this article on a Koi pond site. Seems like a lot of great info. I would appreciate it if a mod or other expert would read it over for accuracy. I would hate to mislead anybody !!!!!!!!!!

Also,
If it good, maybe copy and paste it into a sticky?


http://www.koirific.com/potassium.htm

[kaceyo]

I would also like to hear what the PP experienced people think of this info. Especialy the making of the stock solution for use in aquariums and the recommended doses to reach desired ppm. My stock solution is much more diluted and to be honest I have no idea how many ppm I'm adding as I just go by color.
Thanks,

Kacey

[scans]

I am getting ready to make my first batch and hope this is good info:

To Make A Stock Solution:

1-Throughly wash and dry a 1 liter (1000 mL) poly soda bottle.
2-Fill the bottle half full of hot tap water.
3-Add two and one-half (2-1/2) LEVEL TEAspoons of PP to the bottle.
4-Cap the bottle and shake very well for one minute.
5-Let the resulting purple-black solution stand for 10 to 15 minutes. Shake occasionally.
6-Invert the bottle and inspect the bottom and sides for any PP crystals which have not dissolved. Continue shaking until all have dissolved.
7-Top-off the bottle with additional tap water (hot, cold, warm... no matter) and shake once more to mix.

The resulting "stock solution" contains 15 grams of potassium permanganate per liter (15g/L of KMnO4 or a 1.5% dilution). The entire contents of this one liter bottle will treat 1000 US gallons at a dose of 4 ppm. You can use the following table to accurately dose any system:

Dose Table For Small Ponds (under 500 gallons) Using The Stock Solution Created Above

* 1 ppm = 1 mL of stock solution per US Gallon
* 2 ppm = 2 mL of stock solution per US Gallon
* 3 ppm = 3 mL of stock solution per US Gallon
* 4 ppm = 4 mL of stock solution per US Gallon
* 5 ppm = 5 mL of stock solution per US Gallon
* 6 ppm = 6 mL of stock solution per US Gallon
* 20 ppm = 20 mL of stock solution per US Gallon

The info sounds accurate. I plan on making a batch and dosing at 3ppm for 4 hours.

How High Should I Dose?
Good question, and the answer is different for every pond and owner. KMnO4 is effective in doses as small as 1 ppm and is generally regarded as being very safe even for beginners at this dose. When you dose according to ALL THE SUGGESTIONS in this FAQ, you stand virtually no chance of hurting anything except for some parasites. This minimum therapeutic dose unfortunately does not kill many of the tougher pathogens. Regardless, I recommend that beginners should start here unless epidemic mortalities force a higher dose at the expense of having a safety factor. With KMnO4, you trade dose level for safety.

KMnO4 starts to really "turn-on" as a broad-spectrum bug-killer when dosed in the 2 ppm to 3 ppm range. This dose carries a small risk for beginners but is prefectly safe in the hands of an intermediate pondkeeper. Beginners are strongly warned NOT to start their dosing attempts at this level however. Aeration (or lack of it) generally casts the vote as to whether this treatment level kills the bugs or stresses the fish.

At a 4 ppm level, KMnO4 is an absolute sledgehammer. You can kill a whopping number of bugs with a 4 ppm dose in very short order. This dose level carries a substantial risk however and can kill fish by the score if you cut a corner, run into trouble, are treating weak fish, etc. Advanced ponders may *routinely* dose at this level, but there is very little room for error. Beginners need not apply unless you're chasing a fast-moving bug with near epidemic mortality and are willing to lose some fish. Intermediate folks need to have their ducks firmly in a row and monitor the treatment closely.

At a 5-6 ppm level, you're well into the red zone. KMnO4 can and is used successfully at this level, but you'd better be ready to deal with some morts. Still, when you've got a nasty bug killing fish by the truckload, this dose has some applications. Be advised that you WILL have some gill damage and the fish themselves WILL get a bit burned, but this is a risk you take. My best advice to you would be to stay away from this dose unless you know exactly what you're doing and have practiced many times on worthless, expendable fish. Newbies: Don't even think about it.

In most ponds the 20 ppm dose is absolutely deadly to all fish and aquatic life within just a few minutes. As such, this is called a "sterilizing dose" and is used on plants ONLY or to eradicate parasites in a system which is completely devoid of fish. Contrary to some reports, this dose level should NOT be used even as a "short dip" on fish. I have done a lot of experimentation with this dose on feeder fish and, as much as I wanted to use it as a dip, I found it far too ineffective at removing most parasites as well as being very damaging to the gills. Don’t use PP as a "dip". My rosebushes loved my attempts at 20 ppm dosing.

[scans]

Nobody else gonna chime in?

[pcsb23]

The basic principles are sound, I like their description of usage rates but would strongly recommend not exceeding 4ppm dose! Dosing at 2ppm will work well with room for error.

To re-iterate - before treating with PP ALWAYS have some Hydrogen Peroxide on hand.

I'm not keen on their stock solution recipe, two and a half level teasponns mmm, what if they are small or large teaspoons? what about compaction??

Personally think this is a better recipe:

USA:
1 US gallon distilled water add 10 ounces of PP crystals. Dissolve thouroughly. 1 drop equals 1ppm per US gallon. Based on 20 drops equalling 1cc of liquid. So 1cc (or 1ml or 20 drops) treats 10 gallons at 2ppm.

Paul.

[steve.ryall]

Paul,

I saw that Mr Lucas was using PP for disinfecting a qt tank, is that the main use for PP?

I didnt ask him where you can get if from, here in our part of the world, but I think I need to clean my qt tank too as well as another tank that is going to come out of retirement very soon.
Any info on how to use it for this purpose would be great.

thanks

Steve

[scans]

Whenever I see "Spoon" measurements I use my little "Measuring spoons" not regular utensils

[craniac24]

My experience with PP is that it's much more effective if you dose using the color of the water as a guideline (you want a light-medium purple for 4 hours) as opposed to measuring your dosage.

The first time I used it I was so ridiculously anal about getting the measurement right, only to see that my dose ended up losing effectiveness in about 20 minutes. Now I just make a stock solution (I don't even measure), and slowly add it to the tank until I get the desired color. Works like a charm...and no fuss.

I would say that the sentiment that you have to be SO careful about using PP is just a little exaggerated. Dosing using the color as your guideline will work out just fine.

[pcsb23]

Craniac, Generally I would agree with you over the dosing. However if the tank has an overly large bacterial or bio load you could easily end up with a very large dosage of PP. Levels much above 6ppm are quite agressive on the gills and above 10ppm start to get into the danger zone, as in your fish could die. I accept that the vast majority of hobbyists won't have tanks in such bad condition, and those that do wouldn't probably give a toss abut treating their fish either. But we gotta start somewhere and a dosage of around 2ppm is safe, if it turns brown in a short time then add the same again, if it still turns brown too soon then the tank needs a good clean!

Paul.

[scans]

That is something I have to be careful of. The tank is planted. therefore it most likely has a higher bio-load than many other tanks that get treated. I hope I do not loose too many plants, but that is the price I am willing to pay to save my fish.

[kaceyo]

My experience has been that once it goes to orange/brown, adding more PP won't take it back to purple. Instead I get a purple tinted dark orange/brown. I also have never had it take more than 45 min for the color to change to orange. I am probably being way too cautious just as craniac said, but it's better to play it safe till I get it down right, right? So, does yours go completely back to purple and lose the brown color when you add more solution? I make my stock by adding 1/8 tsp PP powder p/pint water. Then add 3 tbsp p/10gal to tank. I've only done it twice and have no idea what that is in ppm.

Kacey

[Greg Richardson]

Is PP affected by prime or any other conditioner?

[scans]

Yes dechlor's wil usually deactivate it.

"Dose 1 or 2 grams of sodium thiosulfate per 100 US gallons. This will instantly stop the PP treatment by attacking and neutralizing the permanganate complex. "

[Greg Richardson]

Scans. Think I should have asked my question better.
I use peroxide to neutralize it.

I was talking with another hobbyist who mentioned they read somewhere if the water has prime in it when I use PP that is why I'm not able to do much more than a 2hr treatment as it goes orange/brown.

Have done it twice to 5 different tanks. Clean them before hand.

If u or anyone else can comment on the above I'd apreciate it.

If what he read was true how long must one age their water to get chlorames out?

I know clorine is less than 24 hours can u age the other out?

PS. Scan thanks for ACA link on other thread.

[scans]

I don't know about Prime in the water, I guess it would affect it.

My first treatment is underway as I type this.
It has been about 30 minutes and I already see the purple turning a little orange. I guess I had more organics in there than I thought. Gonna let it go a little longer before hitting it with the H2O2.