White patches on skin and fins

[Cheffress]

First time Discus keeper here, so a big thanks to the forums for all the advice and help. I've been a long time fish keeper but VERY recently changed from African cichlids to discus. Not enjoying the journey so far, but I've been dealt a bad hand but the positives will come soon.

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?
I recently got some juvenile discus and after they came in looking a bit average. After two days in a quarantine tank, they developed ich, which means I probably got it from the supplier, but I believe I've gotten over the worst of that after treating the tank with White Spot Remedy for a week (still ongoing treatment). The small spots typical of Ich have all disappeared, but there are a few discus with white patches on their skin and fins, but doesn't look anything like ich.


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).
White patches on their skin and fins (see photos)
Weak swimmers and float around a little, but can propel themselves if required
Eating


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.
API Melafix daily for 3 days (treated as per bottle) due to looking average when they arrived
After identifying ich, Blue Planet White spot remedy (treated as per bottle) daily for next 7 days (with 50% water change daily)
Salt last 4 days (4g/litre), topped up with 50% water changes.


Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
88 litres/23 gallons. 15 small discus fish max 5cm. Mature sponge filter (many months), extra aerator.

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
Since they arrived, 50% water daily due to looking average

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
Running for months/years. Bare bottom.

7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
No. About 0.5ph swing when aged

8. What type/brand water conditioner do you use? Do you add it to the tank or aging barrel? How much do you use?
API Tap Water conditioner


9. Parameters and water source;
Full details from my local water company, but can vary from house to house. Is a GREAT general help.
- temp 29 celsius/84 fahrenheit
- ph 7.75
- ammonia reading 0
- nitrite reading 0
- nitrate reading <20

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.
- municipal water 100%


10. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
None


11. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.
Twice daily. BH mix and freeze-dried blackworms. Only taken to food in the last couple of days.



12. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.
IMG_0018.jpg
IMG_0024.jpg


13. What do you believe is the problem? ( many times hobbyists asking for help have already formed some opinions or sought help elsewhere. Being upfront here will save time and effort on the part of members trying to help.)
No idea. Can't see any similar photos, although I read "on the internet" that Ich can occasionally reproduce under the skin without needing to go through the normal cycle. Could be wildly wrong here.

Thanks to anyone reading this and would appreciate any help.

[brewmaster15]

Welcome to SimplyDiscus!

Sorry the Journey so far has been Rocky. Looking at your issues a few suggestions. Ich is usually not a discus issue because of the water temps discus are kept in. It can happen when they are kept too cool in community tanks.


I have a feeling you are dealing with Columnaris bacteria.. not ich. the ich med you used is basically formalin and malachite green . Its highly effective on ich and would have cleared this up. Its not going to effectively treat Colmnaris though it will knock it back.

Can you post some pics of the actual tank with the fish in it?

In the meantime Add salt at rate of 1 tablespoon per 1 gal. ..just plain sodium chloride table salt .Maintain that replacing what you take out in water changes. stop the melafix its not going to help and I would not treat with Ich treatments at the point because if columnaris.. the formalin will burn the raw areas .

maintain temp 84 for now.

Salt and water changes alone can sometimes deal with Columnaris but depending on where you are globally and medications availible you may need to treat further.

You posted you '
"recently " got these.. can you give more info on how long ago and when symptoms were noted,? Also were these shipped to you or picked up. Have you contacted the seller,?

[Cheffress]

Thanks brewmaster15 for the quick response. I'm reasonably confident the fish had ich when they arrived given the distinctive salt grain spots, and since giving the medication 12 of the 15 small fish have cleared up with the exception of a few with the above-mentioned symptons. What's there now though definitely isn't Ich, and having just researched your suggestion of columnaris, I think you've hit the nail on the head.

Melafix was only given for the first few days as a preventative until I saw the white spots, but will also stop the Ich medication and keep up the salt. They've been in salt for 5 days now. Any idea how long I should keep it up?

As for "recently", they were flown overnight interstate (Australia) on the 4th May and I noticed the first spots on 6th or 7th May. The water was about 25-26 (77-78) degrees celsius when they first arrived. It's now 14th May (for those reading in the future).

I lost a bunch within a few days of them arriving and the seller has agreed to replace them.

[brewmaster15]

what concentration salt have you been using?

al

[Cheffress]

I've been using 4g/litre.

Steve

[AquaticNerd]

For those not using the metric system, the conversion of 4 grams per litre is about 15 grams per gallon, or pretty close to 1tbsp per 1 gal, assuming 1 TBSP of salt is approximately 14 grams. Looks like the dosing is pretty spot on with Al's target.

I'd definitely follow Al's advice on where to start. Keep up the water changes and only replace that salt that you would have removed from the waterchange (i.e. 50% WC on 88 litres would be 44 litres, so you'd only add in 176g of salt). In addition to the salt, you may want to consider getting your hands on medication if/when you need treat Columnaris further. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe a common treatment is a Nitrofurazone bath for several days.

[brewmaster15]

thanks Jake.. appreciate the info and yes nitrofurazone is a good choice.

Theres a really seriously good article on columnaris here..
https://veterinaryresearch.biomedcen...297-9716-44-27

treatment info is towards the end.

[brewmaster15]

Steve do you have access to antibiotics?

That salt level should be fine for 7-10 days as a bath.

[Cheffress]

I didn't have any nitrofurazone but have ordered some from the USA which will take about 10 days to get here to Australia. In the mean time, based on the article linked above, I have used copper sulphate. It's been in there for 2 days now and I have seen a marked improvement in the white patches.

Once again, thanks for all the responses so far. It's been very helpful.

[brewmaster15]

Glad to help. Hope you visit the forum from time to time with updates.

also ps.. with copper sulfate please be sure closely monitor concentration and pH. Your pH of 7.75 is a good thing while using copper as its less toxic at higher pH.