Discus only Or mixed Species?

[jpm995]

I prefer mixed tanks. People treat discus like their not tropical fish. We make them much more special than they really are. Do we treat Cardnials like we treat Discus? They come from the same area with the exact same water parmeters. Plus their more fragile. I also dislike bare bottom tanks. I just looks unnatural and sterile to me.

[Iminit]

Tom I get where you are coming from and can appreciate the point of view.. However that 30 people a day on face book post planted tanks on any site really mean you see the beginning.. Not the end. Most people stunt or kill their discus in a planted tank. Once a hobbyist figures that out they either go bare bottom..possibly with potted plants. Or leave discus for more more forgiving fish or they do what you have done.. Modified your fish keeping to give you a better Success rate. It's a fact frequent water changes are not something advocated by most people with planted and substrate tanks.

Personally I Consider it a failure in my discus keeping if My fish are runted,sickly or die prematurely by years. But for many hobbyists that's the norm in their planted substrate tanks. A discus dies they go buy another and plop in. Discus are to them disposable pieces of eye Candy for their tanks. To me that's just plan sad. Discus should be able to live years in a tank not months.

I hear you but I also see that you’re wrong. So many keeping well established planted tanks with discus. These are discus keepers who’ve figured out how to do it. Yes many beginners attempt it and fail. But many beginners start bare bottom and fail. Another member hear has a 55g tank with one discus tons of algae and crystal clear water that he tops off regularly. Bought the fish at 2 inch. It’s a full 6” now and looks great. 5yrs old. IMG_8573.jpg.
I’ve got 4” discus that I bought from a sponsor. Came 4” and never grew. In my 180 where other fish have grown well over 6”. I’ve also bought 3 6” discus from a sponsor that came in beautiful. But only one has kept its color and one just wasted away. These were kept in a bare bottom tank. No other discus showed any sign of sickness.
Now the fully planted tank I’ve got pictured. Those discus were all 2”. A mixture of Hans and local. That tank started with young discus and small young plants. All grew together.IMG_3363.jpg most hit the 6” size. Some were stunted just like I’ve had stunted in bare bottom tanks. Stunting just happens. Some cull them. Also this tank got 2 50% waterchanges weekly. These were gravel vacuuming water changes. Funny thing is plants did great! People who don’t want to change water are just that. Some are successful. Some swear you don’t need to change water and show there results on a regular basis. Seems there are other approaches that work.

[brewmaster15]

I hear you but I also see that you’re wrong. So many keeping well established planted tanks with discus. These are discus keepers who’ve figured out how to do it. Yes many beginners attempt it and fail. But many beginners start bare bottom and fail. Another member hear has a 55g tank with one discus tons of algae and crystal clear water that he tops off regularly. Bought the fish at 2 inch. It’s a full 6” now and looks great. 5yrs old. IMG_8573.jpg.
I’ve got 4” discus that I bought from a sponsor. Came 4” and never grew. In my 180 where other fish have grown well over 6”. I’ve also bought 3 6” discus from a sponsor that came in beautiful. But only one has kept its color and one just wasted away. These were kept in a bare bottom tank. No other discus showed any sign of sickness.
Now the fully planted tank I’ve got pictured. Those discus were all 2”. A mixture of Hans and local. That tank started with young discus and small young plants. All grew together.IMG_3363.jpg most hit the 6” size. Some were stunted just like I’ve had stunted in bare bottom tanks. Stunting just happens. Some cull them. Also this tank got 2 50% waterchanges weekly. These were gravel vacuuming water changes. Funny thing is plants did great! People who don’t want to change water are just that. Some are successful. Some swear you don’t need to change water and show there results on a regular basis. Seems there are other approaches that work.

Tom let's cut to the chase. I'm asking this now because I already know your answer as I have seen you post it.



What is a hobbyists safest way to keep discus and have The least amount of problems?..In your opinion. Not asking what you do here.

Al

[jpm995]

I have a different take on stunted/deformed discus. I have a 55 gallon tank with mixed tropicals. Years ago i bought a small [about 50 cent size] discus from a local store that was moving for $14. I fed mostly live food [tubifex and brine shrimp] but the pandemic hit and they just got standart tropical flake food. I had no heater for a few years [room temp was about 70 degrees. I did about water changes about every two weeks [6 gallon]. I clean the two hangon filters when the flow slows down to a trickle. He's now the star of my tank over 5" Pidgon Blood. Everybody that see the tank remarks how beautiful he is. Some pics below. My point is i did EVERYTHING wrong and he came out right. Tom [iminit] took these pics. He's posted some stunted discus in his tanks and he does everything as perfect as can be. My feeling is there's two possibilites. Keeping a single discus ensures there never bullied, there the boss in most tanks. Two, it's genetics. There's way too much over breeding with hormones , color additives and who knows what there treated with. I know such a small sample size doesn't prove anything but i feel that discus are just tropical fish they don't need to be pampered. Edit to add having troble posting pics, will retry.

[jpm995]

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[mleibowi]

I started with trying a planted tank, and when I say planted hardy plants in sand with root tabs. I was learning how to care for discus let alone plants. I removed the plants and decided on ferns and anubias. I started with smaller discus not paying attention to quality, and some grew beautifully and some were stunted when I bought them. Now I have a very simplistic sand coated tank with a large piece of driftwood and ferns/anubias. My discus are adults/sub adults- yes pricey but you get what you pay for. I have a school of rummy nose, cardinals, sterbai and bristlenose plecos. The discus are my focus. I like the mix of schooling fish fish. That’s me. Keep it as natural as possible but practical. I wish I have an automated water change system…

The anubias and ferns are just growing out. I may put them in my shrimp tank ultimately….

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[brewmaster15]

I have a different take on stunted/deformed discus. I have a 55 gallon tank with mixed tropicals. Years ago i bought a small [about 50 cent size] discus from a local store that was moving for $14. I fed mostly live food [tubifex and brine shrimp] but the pandemic hit and they just got standart tropical flake food. I had no heater for a few years [room temp was about 70 degrees. I did about water changes about every two weeks [6 gallon]. I clean the two hangon filters when the flow slows down to a trickle. He's now the star of my tank over 5" Pidgon Blood. Everybody that see the tank remarks how beautiful he is. Some pics below. My point is i did EVERYTHING wrong and he came out right. Tom [iminit] took these pics. He's posted some stunted discus in his tanks and he does everything as perfect as can be. My feeling is there's two possibilites. Keeping a single discus ensures there never bullied, there the boss in most tanks. Two, it's genetics. There's way too much over breeding with hormones , color additives and who knows what there treated with. I know such a small sample size doesn't prove anything but i feel that discus are just tropical fish they don't need to be pampered. Edit to add having troble posting pics, will retry.

Jim, there's alway going to be outliers.. Your experience here with 1 fish though interesting really isn't going to be what a Hobbyist raising discus under similar conditions is going to experience.

I have pretty much raised discus under every condition you can think of including substrate and planted tanks.
There's a thread here with some of them..

https://forum.simplydiscus.com/showt...s-I-have-known

There is no doubt in my mind that there are ways to raise discus that will give you healthier fish than other ways..

Every species of fish has a range they can survive in and then there is the range they thrive in. My goal is show hobbyists what it takes for them to thrive..not just barely survive. I realize that's not everyone's goal.. But its mine.

Enjoy your pigeon. I'm really impressed that it's turned out like it has..but it's honestly not the norm under that care.

Al

[mleibowi]

I agree with Al. Jim your experience raising your pigeon is an outlier for sure. As you said, maybe being a single discus, it worked out for you. I’m happy for you. From all the research I’ve done, and Al can back it with his true experience, your situation is atypical.

[jpm995]

Miebowl, beautiful tank and discus. I wouldn't recommend anyone to raise discus with the disregard to fishkeeping standards that i used on my tank. I just feel discus are not as delicate as most think and stunted and disfigured discus are more from a genetic defect than poor fishkeeping.

[jpm995]

Al i think this comment is very misunderstoor and deserves a thread on it's own. "Every species of fish has a range they can survive in and then there is the range they thrive in. "
We always assume the place there from is the best enviornment for them. In reality there may be other reasons there found there. Maybe lack of predators or other factors. I always ask people if you took ans eskimo from Alaska and put him in the the Bahamas if he could survive?

[brewmaster15]

Al i think this comment is very misunderstoor and deserves a thread on it's own. "Every species of fish has a range they can survive in and then there is the range they thrive in. "
We always assume the place there from is the best enviornment for them. In reality there may be other reasons there found there. Maybe lack of predators or other factors. I always ask people if you took ans eskimo from Alaska and put him in the the Bahamas if he could survive?

Jim with all due respect... I really have to disagree with you here. I'm really not sure why you would want to take a fish that not only is from the warm water rivers of South America..but actually evolved there and subject it to colder than it biologically thrives in. 70 F was too cold. You got lucky. That's not something that can be applied to everyone's discus. Most discus Start to decline when the temps are below 80F long term. They become lethargic and are more susceptible to disease. These are not suppositions ..they are well known facts. Discus are a warm water fish..not a gold fish.

I have no clue how your fish survived 2 years at 70 F but I would strongly advise anyone reading this thread to not try it unless you want an excuse to buy new fish...IME

[jpm995]

Al i wasn't really thinking about my discus with that comment i was thinking about tripical fish in general. I would like to see scientific data to see the affect of temperature, ph, and other water parmaters on fishes life span and general health. I realize the tropical fish hobby can't support scientific studies on the best care for tropicals but it would be great to know. I have no doubt the methods this forum recommends for discus care is the absolute best for success keeping discus.

[mark@f3a]

Hi all, very interesting reading all the different views and experiences.

For me the best results have come from bare bottom and temperatures that mirror those of the natural habitat{warm}. if different approaches work for others that's great but i have to agree with some here that it would not be a recommended approach. I guess for me its always been about the Discus, a comment about those are beautiful fish compared to that's a beatiful tank is what i want and means so much more "for me".

Surprising to me on the lower temperature topic, i have experienced on occasion tanks where a heater has failed and immediately can tell they are unhappy, my fish just don't seem comfortable when the temp gets too low.