Kordons AmQuel plus: Deadly!!

[j_li8]

It does sound like it is a bad batch of Amquel+. When was it purchased? Again i havent had problems with current gallon bottle, purchased close a year ago, but i definitely will avoid the current stock that is out, especially if it is a bad batch. I hope Kordon responds to your calls soon and some solution comes out in your favor.

[discusdaves]

i purchased a 5 gallon box from pet mountain about 50 -60 days ago, but i had a gallon jug of amquel left, so i began using this batch last week. I have tried to contact pet mountain to figure out the details of this product and its time on the shelf, and they gave me Kordons phone number, they just didn’t want anything to do with this. Who knows I’m thinking maybe i got bottom of the barrel, or as someone posted the direct warnings from kordon, it does say that they are currently trying to change the product so it doesn’t smell, but my batch smells way worse than it ever has.

[discusdaves]

Couple things that i do want to make clear so everyone doesn’t just throw out their amquel and run is first off i had noticed that it smelled way worse than usual (almost like cat urine). Second off i was blaming my wife for bleaching my cloths, when really it was the amquel (i have never had it do that before), also in concentration, if i look directly at it or smell it burns my eyes (just a slight sting) it also made a small cut on my hand sting. my suggestion for a quick test: find an article of clothing that is black and pour amquel directly on it (cloths are cheaper than discus and can be replaced a lot easier), if it doesn’t bleach it out you should be ok, if it does call kordons, or me (915)549-4920 because i am going to fight this one out unless they do the right thing and admit to it and fix the problem.

[Jennie]

I too had a bad experience with kordon over the phone when I first started up my angel tank. I wanted to know what other test besides seachem that would give me an accurate reading(lfs only carry api) and the old guy wouldn't answer my question. He got mad and was very rude. He snapped and said you're just going to have to go to the website and read up on the product. I explained I already did that, and the site wasn't informative, which was why I was calling.
I just let him know that I wouldn't be buying their products any longer and maybe they should consider hiring experienced staff with actual product knowledge to help customers! i stick strictly with prime now. It's more expensive but guess it's true that you get what you pay for.

[jeff@zina.com]

I found this on the kordon web site about it effectingthe O2 levels. With this lowering O2 in a tank that's at high temps. Might be the problem.

That explains a tank die-off I had about six months ago. None of the other tanks were affected so I was confused, but this one could easily have been close to critical on oxygen levels. The only survivors were plecostomus, so I always assumed an oxygen deficit (plecos do well in low oxygen environments by virtue of being able to "breath" air). I lost about $400 worth of fish and was unhappy, but never pinned down an issue.

By the way, after some quick research, I'm not sure that most, or all, dechlor/ammonia pro9ducts can have this same effect.

Jeff

[Discus master]

i appriciate that, it is very hard on my i have spent a long time building up my buisness and this has destroyed in a matter of days, and i am so tired, i have just been working night after night and it kills me to see my fish dropping like flys

Well first off I know how heart breaking it can be loosing smething you love and had built up from the ground just to gt knocked down in one hand of God so to speak and secondly I can just put my self in your shoes and wow that would hurt so bad. I do not own or never rana bussiness of any kind but I have had enough disopointemnt and loss in life I can relate and I know if I were to loose my fish I would be so heart roken I really do feel for you I mean that. I forget if you did sy or not did you contact a lawyer? and if you did what did they say can the help or no to expensive to make it worth it? to me it sounds like from what you lost 49+ fish it would be worth it get enough money to be able to buy new stock and start over. Perhaps if buying a ton of fish you should be able to get a pretty sweet deal on them I would imigine. Good luck the best of luck please keep us posted on this one.

[discusdaves]

here is a note that the "customer service" at Kordons sent me on tuesday july 13th:
Dave,

I cannot answer your question directly from a technical standpoint but I will discuss this with our scientist here at Kordon to try and understand the issue. Kordon has not had this kind performance from it’s product in the past to my knowledge.

Someone from Kordon will be in contact with you today.


Thank You

David DeNardo Langtry
General Manager
Kordon, LLC
2242 Davis Ct.
Hayward, CA. 94545
Office: 510-782-4058
Cell: 510-909-6464
Fax 510-784-0945

[discusdaves]

I almost forgot to inform you, Kordon’s "know it all PhD in aquatic sciences" (he is a smug old man that thinks he knows it all and unfortunately he is the only person you will talk to if you have a problem) told me on Friday that they would have someone in their laboratories contact me on Friday, so now it has been 5 days without any type of help. I went ahead and sent emails to every company in the business of making dechlorinator last night and aside from wardley everyone sent me a tip via email. The one exception was Seachem the makers of prime, and not only did they email me a detailed email, but they asked me to call them at my convenience, and when I did they found the person that had emailed me and her name is Lindsey. She not only listened to me but she helped me walk through every possible solution for over an hour and a half!!!!!!!

[flyman767]

I almost forgot to inform you, Kordon’s "know it all PhD in aquatic sciences" (he is a smug old man that thinks he knows it all and unfortunately he is the only person you will talk to if you have a problem) told me on Friday that they would have someone in their laboratories contact me on Friday, so now it has been 5 days without any type of help. I went ahead and sent emails to every company in the business of making dechlorinator last night and aside from wardley everyone sent me a tip via email. The one exception was Seachem the makers of prime, and not only did they email me a detailed email, but they asked me to call them at my convenience, and when I did they found the person that had emailed me and her name is Lindsey. She not only listened to me but she helped me walk through every possible solution for over an hour and a half!!!!!!!

I've talked to this older man as well. I had a question about an Kordon product awhile back. Customer service said they could not help but would have their 'retired scientist' would call me asap. It took a few days..but he did eventually call. He was knowledgeable and does know his product(s). However, I thought it was strange that Kordon had to refer to a 'retired scientist' and did not have a full or at least part-time scientist on payroll. If nothing else, their tech's should be trained and loaded with more knowledge. This does not bode well for Kordon.

I've talked with tech support at Seachem and have had positive experiences with them. I believe it was "Lindsey" I've talked to before. I'm curious what her perspective was on your situation? Keep us updated..Ray

[discusdaves]

I've talked with tech support at Seachem and have had positive experiences with them. I believe it was "Lindsey" I've talked to before. I'm curious what her perspective was on your situation? Keep us updated..Ray[/QUOTE]



Lindsey was very helpful, she listened to me tell her from start to finish everything that had happened, she did give me a few helpful tips, and also told me that it is completely possible to have a mistake in manufacturing and that the product needed to be tested in a lab. She also gave me a controlled scientific test to further more prove my case, it’s not the best thing in the world to do, but............ I don’t even want to say, out of love for the fish, but it does involve discus and my nova aqua plus................. One other thing that did really impress me is she never said a negative thing about kordons.

[Keith Perkins]

Years ago I worked for a company that produced a consumer liquid product for cleaning. Like many liquid products, it was made in a concentrate and then later cut with water before being packaged and sold. We had an employee pull a concentrate sample for some reason and put it in a retail bottle. They did whatever tests they were going to do and then set the bottle aside. Long story short, the full strength concentrate ended up getting labeled and shipped out as normal product. Fortunately the consumer that bought that bottle was extremely familiar with the product and immediately knew something was amiss. I wonder if something similar happened here?

Very sorry to hear about your experience. I really hope the help you received from Seachem stops further losses.

[Discus master]

Years ago I worked for a company that produced a consumer liquid product for cleaning. Like many liquid products, it was made in a concentrate and then later cut with water before being packaged and sold. We had an employee pull a concentrate sample for some reason and put it in a retail bottle. They did whatever tests they were going to do and then set the bottle aside. Long story short, the full strength concentrate ended up getting labeled and shipped out as normal product. Fortunately the consumer that bought that bottle was extremely familiar with the product and immediately knew something was amiss. I wonder if something similar happened here?

Very sorry to hear about your experience. I really hope the help you received from Seachem stops further losses.

And I hope he can get some redemtion what a loss short of giving him money to re stock I dont think they can do anything that I will consider adiquite he lost a lot of fish I would die if that happen to me.

[Keith Perkins]

And I hope he can get some redemtion what a loss short of giving him money to re stock I dont think they can do anything that I will consider adiquite he lost a lot of fish I would die if that happen to me.

Agreed, but from what I've been hearing so far I'd be surprised if they just suddenly offered it up. I would have liked to have heard right away that they wanted a sample of the product sent to them at their cost so they could examine it. Instead it seems like they're burying their heads in the sand. If this is really how this company normally operates, I'd say there's an important lesson here we can all learn from.

[Discus master]

Agreed, but from what I've been hearing so far I'd be surprised if they just suddenly offered it up. I would have liked to have heard right away that they wanted a sample of the product sent to them at their cost so they could examine it. Instead it seems like they're burying their heads in the sand. If this is really how this company normally operates, I'd say there's an important lesson here we can all learn from.

yeah dont trust any one of course there not going to addmit guilt im sure the company lawyer tld them that asking for a sample of their prduct almost aditts guilt by saying there culd be something wrong with their product. if they were smart they culd have asked for a sample of the affected water so they cul test tgheir product that is in it with out amituing anything.

[discusdaves]

yeah dont trust any one of course there not going to addmit guilt im sure the company lawyer tld them that asking for a sample of their prduct almost aditts guilt by saying there culd be something wrong with their product. if they were smart they culd have asked for a sample of the affected water so they cul test tgheir product that is in it with out amituing anything.

I agree, I have been waiting for their call and or email, but I don’t want to assume anything nor directly blame them, but until they do test it and offer a solution I shall hold my ground. As it is there is still no other reasonable explanation as to the coincidence of the 3 different locations affected. I have contacted more of my clients who had purchased fish from me around the same time, and none of them are having any issues. I have also touched base with them as to their scheduled water exchanges, and multiple people did do water exchanges around the same time frame and none of them have had issues with the city water. As for Kordons I have not heard anything and it has been 7 days since I originally contacted them. They had originally asked for a sample, but then never came back to that point. I am trying to be patient with them, and I am still exploring other options. In my desperation I have been reaching out to as many people as I could, such as all of you that have read my thread and responded (thank you). I also received an email which I will post next that contains quite a few very knowledgeable facts and I want to publicly say thank you to Alex, whom is a Biochemist, for his knowledge and time.

Again thank you all for your help and support through this, only you can understand my grief, everyone else thinks they are just fish!!!!!