gill flukes and operculum

[rickztahone]

i was just wondering if gill flukes affect the gill plate development and/or makes it deteriorate? i ask because i have been having an on/off case of gill flukes and i haven't treated because my schedule at work will not permit me to do a WC every day at the same time to re-dose. for this reason i haven't treated but i'm scared that if do not treat these flukes they might affect the operculum. a short gill plate would be my worst fear above all.

p.s. do you treat praziquantel 3 days on and 4 off or 4 days on and 3 days off? thanks

[Eddie]

i was just wondering if gill flukes affect the gill plate development and/or makes it deteriorate? i ask because i have been having an on/off case of gill flukes and i haven't treated because my schedule at work will not permit me to do a WC every day at the same time to re-dose. for this reason i haven't treated but i'm scared that if do not treat these flukes they might affect the operculum. a short gill plate would be my worst fear above all.

p.s. do you treat praziquantel 3 days on and 4 off or 4 days on and 3 days off? thanks

Ricardo, I believe most of your fish are well above the age for developing shortened gill plates.

If I remember correctly, 3 days on 4 days off.

How do you know you are dealing with gill flukes?


Eddie

[smiley]

Flukes in my tank are treated to some extent(atleast i havent seen it act for the past 1 month now - earlier all my discus were rubbing/flashing/sratching etc etc)...I was recommended to use Kusuri dewormer for 3 days...then a waterchange by wiping the tank of the glass and then redose the next for getting rid of the fluke eggs...

Well coincidence or not..Its gone for now...Havent done anything other than this..if there is nothing to loose..Ricardo i prefer you try this way as well.

[rickztahone]

Ricardo, I believe most of your fish are well above the age for developing shortened gill plates.

If I remember correctly, 3 days on 4 days off.

How do you know you are dealing with gill flukes?


Eddie

yeah i can't honestly recall if it's 3 on 4 off either lol.

periodically i see one or two fish breathing from one gill only. i only saw one of my carnation turks kind of scratch on the tank floor once and that was all. other than that i have not seen any flashing, but it is only the one gill thing that concerns me. i have the praziquantel on hand but like i said, my work schedule doesn't really let me dose like i would like

[Harriett]

I battled flukes for a few months in a dozen juvies and finally asked Andrew Soh for help. He gave me a plan which I followed to the T and though I continue to monitor obsessively, I have seen ZERO problems since--it has been months now.

Here is what he told me to do: Day 1, 4, 8: [He said any chemical treatment has to be applied 3 x to break a cycle].
I moved the discus into a smaller tank and did a 4 hour PP bath. I used the usual dose for the bath--it was a bright pink color. The treatment tank had a bubbler and a heater. Once the bath was going, I immediately set up and PPed the discus tank with a solution that made the water dark purple x 3.5 hours. I put the filter, the heater, all hoses used for maintenance, the faucet adaptor, the net, you name it--everything was submerged in the deep purple PP tank. I took all filter material and isolated it for sterilization later in a closed bucket.
30 minutes before the fish bath was completed, I emptied the discus tank with the sterilized hose, cleaned and wiped the tank, rinsed everything very well, refilled the tank with conditioned water. Andrew said to use 100mg salt per 100 liters of water starting on day 1. I did.
I put in some new filter floss to begin cycling which was fairly useless.
Discus went back into their sparkling clean tank. They were very subdued for a few hours but were upright and ok.
On days 2,3,5,6,7 I did daily 80%--to 150% water changes, re dosed salt, fed lighter than usual.
Repeated the full treatment and resterilized the discus tank as above on days 4 and 8. [I dumped the new filter material in with day 1 material and eventually bleached all of it to use later---1/10 bleach water solution + 2 days of rinsing and soaking in water after the sterilization.]
At the completion of day 8 treatment and tank sterilization, discus went back into their tank per usual and I continued the salt treatment for 30 days. I put in new filter media, used STABILITY for several days after water changes to jump start the cycling in earnest, and salted the full month.
They are all in quite good shape, no gill problems, flukes, I believe, have been permanently solved.

I had treated twice before I talked to Andrew, once with Clout, once with PP---perhaps the problem was that I had read that if you isolate the fiter material for >24 hours, flukes would be dead...it said they could only live host free x 6 hours. Probably that was baloney. I reinfected them or they were carrying bullet proof eggs and my timing previously was off, I don't know.

I rested the fish [with their flukes] for a few weeks before I started Andrew's treatment plan--I was very concerned about the number of PP treatments but it looks like they had enough recovery time between what I had already unsuccessfully done and Andrew's plan so that they did fine.

I know it was a whole lot of work to do what Andrew suggested...this was the first time I encountered flukes that I know of....I read a whole lot of stuff about people having repeating fluke problems for a long time and I wasn't up for that.
If this helps anyone, great--hats off to Andrew, once again!!!!!!!!!
Best regards,
Harriett

[rickztahone]

I battled flukes for a few months in a dozen juvies and finally asked Andrew Soh for help. He gave me a plan which I followed to the T and though I continue to monitor obsessively, I have seen ZERO problems since--it has been months now.

Here is what he told me to do: Day 1, 4, 8: [He said any chemical treatment has to be applied 3 x to break a cycle].
I moved the discus into a smaller tank and did a 4 hour PP bath. I used the usual dose for the bath--it was a bright pink color. The treatment tank had a bubbler and a heater. Once the bath was going, I immediately set up and PPed the discus tank with a solution that made the water dark purple x 3.5 hours. I put the filter, the heater, all hoses used for maintenance, the faucet adaptor, the net, you name it--everything was submerged in the deep purple PP tank. I took all filter material and isolated it for sterilization later in a closed bucket.
30 minutes before the fish bath was completed, I emptied the discus tank with the sterilized hose, cleaned and wiped the tank, rinsed everything very well, refilled the tank with conditioned water. Andrew said to use 100mg salt per 100 liters of water starting on day 1. I did.
I put in some new filter floss to begin cycling which was fairly useless.
Discus went back into their sparkling clean tank. They were very subdued for a few hours but were upright and ok.
On days 2,3,5,6,7 I did daily 80%--to 150% water changes, re dosed salt, fed lighter than usual.
Repeated the full treatment and resterilized the discus tank as above on days 4 and 8. [I dumped the new filter material in with day 1 material and eventually bleached all of it to use later---1/10 bleach water solution + 2 days of rinsing and soaking in water after the sterilization.]
At the completion of day 8 treatment and tank sterilization, discus went back into their tank per usual and I continued the salt treatment for 30 days. I put in new filter media, used STABILITY for several days after water changes to jump start the cycling in earnest, and salted the full month.
They are all in quite good shape, no gill problems, flukes, I believe, have been permanently solved.

I had treated twice before I talked to Andrew---perhaps the problem was that I had read that if you isolate the fiter material for >24 hours, flukes would be dead...it said they could only live host free x 6 hours. Probably that was baloney. I reinfected them or they were carrying bullet proof eggs and my timing previously was off, I don't know.

I know it was a whole lot of work to do what Andrew suggested, and I read a whole lot of stuff about people having fluke problems serially for a long time and I wasn't up for that.
If this helps anyone, great--hats off to Andrew, once again!!!!!!!!!
Best regards,
Harriett

that is a great write up Harriett, thank you! it's good enough for a sticky IMO. i have no idea why but i have always been scared to use PP on my discus. i use it on new plants all the time but when it comes to discus it kind of scares the pants off of me. if worse comes to worse i will definitely do that approach. it does sound extensive though and i'm sure that is the reason why all the flukes were eradicated. thanks again and i will save this thread if the need arises to use the PP in such manner.

[Harriett]

You are most welcome, Rick--Ias I said, it's all Andrew's info. I am REALLY grateful that he took the time to listen to me and then tell me exactly how to do what I was trying to do---CORRECTLY.
Best regards,
Harriett