Please Help Me

[Misty]

5 (used to be 6) PB juvies in my possession for almost a month.
They used to be in a 30G bare tank and started to darken and clamp. I went to my LFS and was directed to "the discus god" who sat me down and talked to me about the other fish store they came from and their supplier who is known to have fish with this blackening hooplah. So he tells me I'm screwed, doomed, hopeless, and naive for even trying to own one, let alone 6. Well, that's what I took from it. Oh yeah, and use the buffer, and get the blackening panacea and the vitamins. So I use the buffer and they look better for a while. Eating their frozen bloodworms, acting interested... Even the scrawny one. Boyfriend urges no action other than buffer, as does wallet.

While gone on vacation my boyfriend took 2 darkened skinny ones and put them in a 10G for a couple days with some sort of african bay tree oil, and put the other 4 into the 55G previously occupied by vampire tetra, plecos, and various horrid feeders. (bad batch of ich-ridden feeders recently, too. Yes, it gets better.) He then put them back into the big tank after maybe 3 days yesterday the skinniest darkest one died.
Sinker, not a floater, I never saw it, only that it hid beforehand, was blackish everywhere and had nubby looking peanut colored bubbles or tumor-ish developments on the fins very fine (thought it was bubbles from water change for a while).
So before it died I ordered the blackening panacea and the vitazymogen which came today.
I go and read these forums and I dont have the #2. I do have rock and epsom salt. Is it even the blackening disease or plague?

55G - Temp 86F/90F (each side of tank) - pH 7.4 - NO3 0 - NO2 0 - GH 300 - Chlorine 0 - KH 300 - All according to a quick dip strip. WC every 3-4 days.
I have well water. Just got R/O system. Not sure how to use or hook up. I don't have a storage water heated aerated anything. Just buckets from the tap.
So do I go off half informed, half medicated, unprepared?

Do I add 55/12=4.58tsp Blackening Panacea meds to my tank? Do I mix it in a cup first?
Do I also add 5 T rock salt, too? Do I mix it in hot water first?
Should I wait and order #2 also? Or do what I can (which is what?) now?
How long do I wait to use the vitazymogen? -it said after.....
Yes, I've been digging for info on old threads, maybe so many that I'm confused, pissed at my guy for trying to help, pissed at myself for buying them on impulse.
Time for damage control.
Please help me if possible.
Thank you in advance,
-Misty

[nickmcmechan]

there are people on this forum far better qualified than me to answer

however some simple advice jumps out at me

• stop adding all the crap
• switch to RO with a re-mineraliser
• switch to daily water changes...with problems i'd be looking at 50% daily
• tell us more about the setup - what else is in the discus tank(sorry i got confused half way through reading your thread) and how is it setup (subtrate etc)
• start courses of meds recommended here, i'm not familiar with the ones you stated

[calihawker]

Misty
First of all take a deeeep breath and let me say welcome to simply discus from a former Rohnert Park guy You came to the right place.

There's gonna be a lot of folks here that are way better than I at helping with the sick ones but I can tell you right now that without a positive diagnosis of what the fish may or may not have, some med treatments could be detrimental.

You have pretty good tap water in Petaluma but you need to treat it with prime to remove chlorine/chloramine.

If you haven't already done so go to the disease and sickness section and fill out the form and many someones will be here to help you.

Good luck. I'll be keeping an eye on your progress!

[Misty]

Thanks.
-I haven't added anything. My guy gave 'em that fin rot/bay oil and moved them from tank to tank without my knowlege.
-They're in a 55G with a biowheel thingie. Now I just found out he threw away the hand cut poly filter a couple hours ago without putting a new one in, and there aren't any more. So a stupid biowheel and no filter. I'm very mad right now... Oh yeah, he put sand and a couple logs in there while I was gone too. Not what I wanted either.
-Yes I will do more water changes. I'm not allowed to this late, so tomorrow.
-The blackening panacea is recommended here, that's why I got it. um, green malachite?

[Eddie]

Wow, thats alot to take in one post, I'd be pissed too.

My first question, water from the tap is what? Using the test strips, what are your water parameters? Is that the numbers you gave above or are those numbers tank water readings?

As mentioned above, don't any chemicals to your water for conditioning. Most of the time, tap water is just fine. If not, you may need to do some aging of your tap water before waterchanges. Also, ditch the buckets, make life a million times harder. Can you get a python no-spill system? Its really handy for water changes and or water filling.

As far as meds, not really sure what your fish have. What are some other symptoms? Are they all eating? Do they dart wildy, scratching on objects? Do they breathe heavily? Only use one gill? Fins degrading?

Water is the answer, as you can see as my signature. If your fish are off, looking ill, falling ill, anything.....first place to look is water quality. Are you doing enough water chages, do you change enough every time, is the filter degraded by not cleaning enough or as often.

Juvenile fish need superior water quality, super nutritious foods and they need to be fed often, not alot of food at one time but small meals spread out through the entire day.

Hoping you fish turn around,

Eddie

[Misty]

Deep Breaths, right?
Ok, Is the spinny biowheel enough filtration, or should I pick another fight with the BF for throwing away the hand cut poly filters I had in the filter cartridge area?> There aren't anymore and it's 2am. I found one that looks like felt, but...why would he do that?!


Tap water is normally pH 8.8, and tds are 330ppm. Right this minute its pH 7.4 and tds is 242ppm (i have a stick tester meant for plants).

the python is neat, but not for water changes from the hose outside; it's cold water. and the bf uses it on 4 other tanks that have feeder-ich issues and alerts constantly. should i get my own?

normally I do water changes every day 60%, or i did when they were in the 30G last week. The 5 left have been in the 55G for maybe 3 days now without any wc because I wanted to get the temp stablized (when i came home from vacation to see all of these changes, the temp was 74F. i was pissed) with 2 100watt heaters (one is digital). now we're at 87F filter side, and 90 on the other.

I feed them only bloodworms, the frozen sterilized kind. They still eat everything. They get 1 block per feeding, 3x daily.

[Misty]

No, the fish aren't itching on stuff, or hiding. They don't breathe funny or swim funny.
The other one that was separated, reunited, and still sick and scrawny anyway doesn't have the wierd nubbys on his fins that the dead one had.

[Eddie]

Deep Breaths, right?
Ok, Is the spinny biowheel enough filtration, or should I pick another fight with the BF for throwing away the hand cut poly filters I had in the filter cartridge area?> There aren't anymore and it's 2am. I found one that looks like felt, but...why would he do that?!


Tap water is normally pH 8.8, and tds are 330ppm. Right this minute its pH 7.4 and tds is 242ppm (i have a stick tester meant for plants).

the python is neat, but not for water changes from the hose outside; it's cold water. and the bf uses it on 4 other tanks that have feeder-ich issues and alerts constantly. should i get my own?

normally I do water changes every day 60%, or i did when they were in the 30G last week. The 5 left have been in the 55G for maybe 3 days now without any wc because I wanted to get the temp stablized (when i came home from vacation to see all of these changes, the temp was 74F. i was pissed) with 2 100watt heaters (one is digital). now we're at 87F filter side, and 90 on the other.

I feed them only bloodworms, the frozen sterilized kind. They still eat everything. They get 1 block per feeding, 3x daily.

Okay, here we go. The bio wheel filters are effective, I used to use them a long time ago. Those cartridges are junk anyways, no purpose but to keep people buying them. They do however catch all the bigger particles before they start catching and building on the biowheel. The best thing you can do is use a pre-filter on the inlet and you can actually just throw a media bag filled with porous rings into the filter to add to the bio filtration. A prefilter is just a simple sponge that you fit onto the inlet tube. There is a sticky about in this section or the general section.

I'd get another python, it will really be handy. 5 fish in a 55, you could get away with doing waterchanges every 3 days if you had to. If your fish are juvenile, you may want to add 2 or 3 more feeding to there feeding regiment. If you feed more, the more waste will accumulate so you will need to do more frequent water changes.

I do recommend you start adding a flake or pellet to their diet also. FBWs are not a well rounded diet for discus. There is not enough nutrients or vitamins to ensure the vitality of the fish. If you can feed them a homemade mix, that would be even better IMO.

8.8 is high for PH. I think you will need to get that RO unit working and figure out a good RO/tap water mix to get your PH down a bit. The best advice I can give is to have system developed to keep your PH constant, between tank and conditioned water.

Hope that helps,

Eddie

[Scribbles]

Sorry to butt in but did you say that you do wc from a hose outside using cold water?

Chris

[Misty]

heck no scribbles! I normally tap temp in a bucket from my kitchen sink.
Thanks all for trying to help, I'm reading your replies and flipping back and forth to the library series on r/o filtration.

[Scribbles]

Sorry, I misunderstood.

Chris

[calihawker]

Like Eddie said, water is the answer. If there's any way you can get some kind of container big enough to hold say 25-30 gallons then use that to do an ro/tap water mix. Start with 50% ro and go from there. Get the water up to temp and add prime.

Am I understanding that you're not sure how to hook up the ro? Let me know if that's an issue. It's a super simple device really.

[poconogal]

Misty, I would definitely get your own Python and tell your BF to keep his hands off your Discus!

[fishkeeper59]

Hi misty, been reading your post and its a shame for all the headaches of having sick fish. I recently went through a torrid time of losing 75% of my fry's (150+ down to 40 now)., they are 5 weeks old now and what i've learned from all that misery was to be clear headed and think about each episode and event leading to each given malady. finally after frantic water changes and constant testing of water parameters i realized that what i needed was stability in the environment my fishes we're in. No medication or tonic was given to my fish as it only conflicated my water chemistry, i raised water temp., daily water change of 10% dripped slowly via a air hose, real slow...no sudden changes in ph., and slow feed. just a little bit at a time of what ever their favorite food was. Once i started getting color back(from black to brownish and clear eyes) i introduced grounded bits and mashed beefheart, real small amounts..What i needed was to learn something from all the sacrifices my baby discus's made, and the next time that i'm given an opportunity to raise fry's that i wont make the same mistakes. Goodluck and remember try to have consistency in your water and hopefully they make it through..

[Roxanne]

Hi Misty

Tell me if I have this right...your ph from the tap is 8.8 and your ph in your tank is 7.4? And you are on well water? Is this right?

Roxanne