After the PP fluke treatment

[shawnhu]

I must agree, the laying down was a scary sight.

[kaceyo]

That was a close one Francis. Always check on your fish every 10mins or so when doing a PP treatment. IME the fish take the pp treatments harder when there are are alot of organics in the water. The organics being oxydized eat up all the oxygen and theres not enough left for the fish.
BTW, any dechlorinator will stop the PP reaction, so if your using dechlorinated water for wc prior to PP treatment, it won't work.

Kacey

[mmorris]

IME the fish take the pp treatments harder when there are are alot of organics in the water. The organics being oxydized eat up all the oxygen and theres not enough left for the fish.
Kacey

Interesting point Kacey and thanks for that. I would think that it would really negatively impact fish species with high oxygen requirements.

[TankWatcher]

You should add extra aeration during a PP treatment for that reason and keep a more or less constant watch over them for the duration.

[seanyuki]

Hi Robyn,

After the treatment....they all got up.....took some pics of them today.



Cheers
Francis

Francis, those first two pictures scare me. Did those discus laying down on their sides, get back up?

They look very nice in the last 3 pictures and I only hope the ones laying down earlier are among the upright swimmers in those pictures.

[Eddie]

Francis, showing off again! LOL Those are some beautiful Albinos. Glad you fixed them up.

Eddie

[Daniella]

Did I get that wrong? For a 90 gallons aquarium the dosage of 2mg per liter should be 680mg appx.

Since a teaspoon is 6 gram appx. then that mean you dosed your aquarium with a about 4 gram which should give a wooping 15mg per liter concentration or so. Is this right?

ain't that a little strong? No wonder you lost a tetra. I thought I was pretty much concervative with my 2mg per liter and it is not as effective as after 5 treatments I can still see some of my fish scratching. They do it much less after each treatment but they do it still. I bet yours don't with such concentration. No wonder they have irritation on the gill cover as well.

I would be afraid of using such high concentration for 4 hours but I guess that since you use dechlorinator, that probably saved the fish from a too strong dose, not sure.

Well maybe I got the whole story wrong about the PP dosage but for a 90 gallong aquarium it should be much less.

It must have been quite dark in there.

I am thinking that my dosage is too weak.

I just read it back and realized that you wrote 3/4 teaspoon was a half dose???? wow..that would mean about 8 gram for 90 gallons aquarium at full dose? won't you propulse your fish to the moon with that much strenght? that would be about 25ppm of PP, thus 10 times the recommanded dosage, right?

I am curious, where did you get that dosage? Is that what the manufacturer recommand? Is is written on the bottle or something?

I treated my 90 gallon tank yesterday for flukes using Potassium Permanganate, and aside from losing one cardinal tetra (he was on his last legs anyway), everything turned out well.

Thought I'd post some fotos, along with my water management system, which is a big part of how I've been able to improve the health of my fish.

http://s484.photobucket.com/albums/r...%20after%20PP/

Using Pond Oxy Clear (potassium permanganate) from Jehmco, I began with a half-dose. I filled a plastic container with about 2 cups of aquarium water and added 3/4 tsp. PP, and dumped it in. The water immediately turned bright pink to lavender. 5 minutes later it was losing its brightness, so I prepared another 1/4 tsp in aquarium water and dumped it in. Same thing after 15 minutes. I think I actually added about 2 teaspoons of PP total over the first hour and a half in the 90 gal.

At 3 hours I noticed my tetra drifting, and seeing that he'd given up the ghost, I added hydrogen peroxide, which immediately cleared the tank water, that by that time was getting brownish and hard to see through.

I don't think it stressed the discus too much, maybe a little irritation on the gill cover on the Red Mellon, but I'm not sure. In any event, we'll see if the fish stop flicking their fins so much.

-Don

[kaceyo]

Graham,
Yes, of course it reacts equally and all at once with anything organic in the water. My point was that when there is a high organic load, usually due to not cleaning the tank well enough before treatment, oxygen is used up much quicker even with extra air, and the water turns brown quickly from the oxidized organics. The fish get much more stressed in this situation than when the water is clean and stays pink for the whole 4hrs and beyond.

Kacey

[Daniella]

And there is also the risk of having the PP precipitate and stick on the gill from what I read, so I guess the less PP the better in that reguard. Although I am not sure how much this is a problem. I am guessing that it is when the stuff turn brown that this is more likely to happen?

But the nice thing about pp is that it does take care of most things on a fish, so parasites, bacteria and fungus so it's very broad.

My fish don't seem stressed one bit by the treatment I am giving them at 2ppm even if given 2 days in row. Flashing is less and less, eating is better and better, but it does take much more than one treatment.

Kacey The brown colour is not organics...they've been brunt away, but left over manganese from the chemical reaction....actually good plant fert


If you add X ppm to a tank then it's working on anything and everything...this includes the gills of the fish. Yes it's using up the O2 in the water but it's also doing a job in the gills at the same time. If there were no organics in the tank but the fish, then they would take the full brunt of the oxidation power. The PP only has so much reducing ability so can only use up so much O2. The higher the organic load the quicker the PP gets spent

Assuming that there's lots of air going in and the PP dose isn't crazy, the fish shouldn't care less.

[Daniella]

what dosage did you use? what size of tank? what type of water? RO? RO mix? tap? Any dechlorinator used prior?

I am thinking that my dosage is not strong enough, or could be a tidy bit stronger, but before I do anything stronger I want to know exactly what other people use and that worked for them.

Hi Robyn,

After the treatment....they all got up.....took some pics of them today.



Cheers
Francis

[Daniella]

Maybe this is due to their thick slime coat? Maybe this is also why they are more prone to attack by parasite since that same slime coat is a nice cozy home for parasites and offer them lots of protection as well.

My little black tetras were absolutely not affected by what ever attacked my discus with lightning fast speed.

it seems that discus(domestic) can get through the pp treatment more easily than other fish.i 've ever lost some angelfish during pp treatment too,but discus were all ok.

[seanyuki]

In a 75 gallons tank....using 1/8 teaspoon of PP.....when water turns brown add H2O2....water clears up add 1/8 teaspoon of PP again.....same procedure for 4 hours......after treament 80% water change....only do two whole treaments in a week.

Cheers
Francis

what dosage did you use? what size of tank? what type of water? RO? RO mix? tap? Any dechlorinator used prior?

I am thinking that my dosage is not strong enough, or could be a tidy bit stronger, but before I do anything stronger I want to know exactly what other people use and that worked for them.

[MSD]

Its the color of the water that you look for dosing PP. As long as its a pink color and not deep purple, (no band jokes) they be OK. Using Jungle Oxy pond clear I use one level teaspoon per 55 gallons as per label directions.

[kaceyo]

Kacey The brown colour is not organics...they've been brunt away, but left over manganese from the chemical reaction....actually good plant fert


If you add X ppm to a tank then it's working on anything and everything...this includes the gills of the fish. Yes it's using up the O2 in the water but it's also doing a job in the gills at the same time. If there were no organics in the tank but the fish, then they would take the full brunt of the oxidation power. The PP only has so much reducing ability so can only use up so much O2. The higher the organic load the quicker the PP gets spent

Assuming that there's lots of air going in and the PP dose isn't crazy, the fish shouldn't care less.

Graham,
I'll take your word for it that the brown color is manganese. But experience tells me that when there are alot of organics in the water, enough to cause the water to go brown fairly quickly, that the fish get much more stressed than when the water is clean enough stay pink the whole 4hr treatment. I believe that the oxygen is being used up much faster when the organic load is high and this effects the fish.
You are right. The PP only has so much reducing ability, and the fish are more than able to handle that in a clean system. But when that "ability" is used up quickly on organics, the O2 is also used up more quickly.
I've seen fish end up gasping for air and starting to lay down in the tank under those circumstances, which they never do in a clean tank that stays pink.

Kacey

[MostlyDiscus]

Normally if the water is darker it means that there is still a high level of PP and may also have a higher level of magnesum at the same time. If you leave the PP in you will see over time that it turns a light brown provided you didnt start out with too much PP to start with. MDS, I use half dosage to start with and add as I go. 1/8 tsp to start with on a 29 gal and 1/4 tsp for a 40 long. I normally add more PP after 30 mins. I do agree with Graham in that you dont add the hydrogen peroxide in until the end of the potassium permagenate treatment. I try to wait 2 days between treatments so that it kills rehatched gill flukes. If you give your system a good scrubbing ie bactieral/protein buildup on the tank sides then you will have crystal clear water after your first treatment.