After the PP fluke treatment

[TankWatcher]

Adding water treated with Prime is how I neutralise my PP. What I do is scrub my tank floor & wall down really well, let the debris settle & then syphon out about 40% of the water & don't refill at this stage. Make sure any sponges are removed or cleaned well, before adding the PP. I make up a stock solution of PP & add the required amount to the tank. I add extra aeration during the treatment. At the end of the treatment time, or if the fish appear distressed at any point (which hasn't happened) I fill up the tank with water treated with prime.

[wanderingfish]

it seems that discus(domestic) can get through the pp treatment more easily than other fish.i 've ever lost some angelfish during pp treatment too,but discus were all ok.

[DonMD]

Hi Don,
If The pp changes like that so fast that usually means you had alot of organics in the water for it react with or something else is there thats causing it to react... When I use PP I start with a tank that I have done a massive water change on and I thoroughly rinse any sponges.

The other thing I noted in your Pictures is that you use Prime... I don't use it....but I have known people here that have used Prime and then tried using PP and the PP was spent very quickly....leads me to believe that it may react chemically.

hth,
al

Thanks, Al,

I believe, from reading the posts here, that Prime did in fact interact with my PP treatment. I'd also say that next time I'll remove the large piece of wood from the tank, as I'm sure it's got lots of "stuff" hidden in its nooks and crannies.

Today, 2 days after the PP treatment, I changed water and tested, and noted an increase in ammonia to 0.50ppm. So, even though it may have not been viable the entire 3 hours it was in my tank, it did at least slightly affect the bio filter. I'm on travel now for 3 days, so I'll cut back on feeding while I'm gone, and have a look Friday night, today being Tuesday.

Thanks everyone for all your responses, it is VERY helpful, and thanks to Ed aka MostlyDiscus, for your great help and support! -Don

[robby ram]

Does PP treatment kill beneficial bacteria in the bio media?or filter?

[TankWatcher]

I believe it can if you go way above the recommended dose, but not at the dosage that is safe for a long term bath for discus. If you leave your canister filter running, it must be really clean. Organics from the filter will also nuke the PP much quicker.

[poconogal]

It can also nuke your bio if its a newly established bio.

[brewmaster15]

Even at the recommended dose it can impair your Biofilter... PP should be considered a caustic chemical that is highly reactive.... what makes it effective at killing flukes is what makes it dangerous.. if its alive in the tank... PP will kill it or damage it...Fish survive it at a low dose...but that doesn't mean its not burning them as well... its much like cauterizing like they did in the old days when they used a hot iron on an open or festering wound...

Am I scaring you? if so...good. I've seen firsthand what happens when you are not careful with it!

I do believe it can be a beneficial thing to use in some cases...but be very respectful of the things that can kill as easily as cure if used wrong or carelessly.

Please read this thread...

http://www.forum.simplydiscus.com/sh...ad.php?t=70066

and read carefully !

Thanks,
al

[TankWatcher]

Hi Al
I was mainly going from a conversation I had with Paul earlier this year, where he told me that if the filter is newly established then the PP will knock it some at 2ppm, but that when he had his sump running, he could do 2ppm treatments and it never missed a beat. He said that much more than that though and no matter how mature your filter is it will suffer. I didn't really test this myself, as I figured running PP through the filter would nuke the PP quicker. So I disconnected it & then started running it again just as neutralise the PP.

[brewmaster15]

Hi Al
I was mainly going from a conversation I had with Paul earlier this year, where he told me that if the filter is newly established then the PP will knock it some at 2ppm, but that when he had his sump running, he could do 2ppm treatments and it never missed a beat. He said that much more than that though and no matter how mature your filter is it will suffer. I didn't really test this myself, as I figured running PP through the filter would nuke the PP quicker. So I disconnected it & then started running it again just as neutralise the PP.

Hi Robyn,
I agree with Paul here that at certain levels a mature biofilter will spring back.. but I don't necessarily believe that 2 PPM in all cases is true...I think Paul was just sharing his observations in his tank and his set of conditions....Its not a hard fast number though ...I've known many that have used it at 2ppm and had an impaired bio...... and its important to take into account the filtration you use, the bioload in the tank, and your maintenance schedule.... A safe bet is to assume that it will probably affect the bio at any level used and just monitor for an ammonia and nitrite spike. If it doesn't happen...great..if it does...you catch it.

one note...

So I disconnected it & then started running it again just as neutralise the PP.

sometimes doing that can defeat the purpose of using the PP...yes you save the BIO here but you also may leave a reservoir of the pathogen you have been treating for.. just something to think about ...If you are dealing with an issue that calls for PP... it may be wise to be prepared and pitch the filters and just use new ones...thats when a fishless cycled backup filter comes in real handy..or one from an established tank....hard part is being prepared for needing one.. though in reality... theres always megawater changes that can be done if no bio filter is present.

[TankWatcher]

sometimes doing that can defeat the purpose of using the PP...yes you save the BIO here but you also may leave a reservoir of the pathogen you have been treating for..

Hi Al

yeah, I knew that was a possibility, but I had no back up filter ready & was concerned that the PP would treat nothing at all, if organics in the filter nuked it too quickly. The filter was cleaned out after each PP. The coarse filter pad was washed & boiled (so yes, all good bacteria on that was killed). The fine sponge replaced. I just relied on the what good bacteria was left on the eheim media (which was rinsed in tank water taken from another known healthy tank). Luckily, no ammonia spike. It probably helped that the tank has two cannisters & both had been running over two years.

[seanyuki]

Just sharing...did a PP treatment recently for external parasites.

here're some pics after adding H2O2 into the tank.



Pictures taken yesterday after the treatment.




Cheers
Francis

[MSD]

It can be an amazing treatment I agree Francis, and a viable last resort in extreme cases in which the treatment or death are the only options.

[TankWatcher]

Francis, those first two pictures scare me. Did those discus laying down on their sides, get back up?

They look very nice in the last 3 pictures and I only hope the ones laying down earlier are among the upright swimmers in those pictures.

[seanyuki]

Hi Robyn,

All the discus survived after the PP treatment...luck was on my side....I was shocked too lol.


Cheers
Francis

Francis, those first two pictures scare me. Did those discus laying down on their sides, get back up?

They look very nice in the last 3 pictures and I only hope the ones laying down earlier are among the upright swimmers in those pictures.

[TankWatcher]

Don't scare me like that. Felt like a flash back to last Thursday.

So happy they got back up for you, Francis.

I've never had mine even seem distressed with PP. I did make a mistake with PP and formalin (used FM&G straight after the PP) which caused 2 deaths. But PP on it's own, they have always sailed through without a care in the world. Did they lay down during PP, or only when H2O2 was added? I've never used H2O2, I use Prime to neutralise the PP.