Does this constitute bare bottom ??

[dpt8]

I have a new tank.. 44 pentagon.. The oak stand is solid so the tank sits right on wood. I didn't paint the bottom of the tank because it is sitting on the wood. Even thugh tere is a half inch between the tank and the wood I am thinking it houldn't mke a difference.. Pleae help..

[White Worm]

LOL, BB means no substrate on the tank bottom in the tank. You are better off painting the bottom. With that gap, there will still be reflection that seems to make discus ice skate along the bottom.

[dpt8]

Thanks. That was what I was wondering.. How the present bottom of the tank looks to the discus :9I I may have to put some gravel in there for now so I don't have to take the tank down again and paint it..

[Greg Richardson]

If you doing juvies forget the gravel. If you don't want to paint it stick some shelf paper, wall paper, contruction paper, or whatever to get rid of the reflection.

If you don't want to take it down do a 90% wc.
Lift end of tank up and shove the paper under there and tape it to the sides.

Have help.

[CAGE-RATTLER]

I personally have doubts that the fish see a reflection with unpainted tanks.

Ive had fish do the ice skating thing when they 1st went in tanks whether the bottom was painted or not. It doesnt take them long before they arent sticking to the bottom and all over the tank either way.

The reason i have my doubts of them seeing a reflection is if you look straight down thru the top of the tank .... there is NO reflection at all. If we look from the front of the tank at the bottom .... we see a reflection but we are looking thru 2 pieces of glass with water in between .......... the fish are in the water and dont look thru both panes of glass at 2 different angles. When they look thru the water to the bottom of the tank ............. why would that be any different than them looking thru the water out the front of the tank where we are??? They sure dont see a reflection of themselves when we approach the tank with food ..... lol.

IMO if there is a reason to paint the bottom ....... its the same reason we paint the backs or use light colored film to keep the discus from getting dark ............ because the bottom will be dark if nothing is there or sitting on dark wood.

Just my 2 cents.

[Greg Richardson]

Cage. I disagree with you. I do believe there is a reflection.
I also believe how much of one depends on the tank frame and glass thickness.
I also believe they can get use to it. I've had them both ways.
That being said if there is a chance a reflection bothers them I'd much rather be on the safe side as stress is not good as you know.
But let's say you are right.
Another reason for painting or using another material is to lighten it up so one can clean the bottom as clean as possible. Most stands wood color doesn't allow that.

[White Worm]

IMO, I have seen them do the ice skate when I have not painted or put some kind of substrate on the bottom. It didnt matter what age. They may get used to it but when I had the bottom painted, I didnt run into that problem even from the start. It may be that they have a different view than we do if we were looking in from the top. Looks better painted though. I also agree that the untreated wood under a tank could be an eye sore.

[dishpanhands]

I don't paint my tanks. on the metal tanks stands I put the tank on a piece of cardboard. If I don't use the cardboard the fish lay down on there sides. The other tank stands that are made of wood I do nothing. One of them have a two inch gap, and I have never had any trouble with it..
IME

[CAGE-RATTLER]

Cage. I disagree with you. I do believe there is a reflection.
I also believe how much of one depends on the tank frame and glass thickness.
I also believe they can get use to it. I've had them both ways.
That being said if there is a chance a reflection bothers them I'd much rather be on the safe side as stress is not good as you know.
But let's say you are right.
Another reason for painting or using another material is to lighten it up so one can clean the bottom as clean as possible. Most stands wood color doesn't allow that.

Ive brought this up a couple times before and have yet to hear any real proof that they do indeed see a reflection. If fishes eyes are different than ours i dont know but ive even put a pair of swimming goggles on and dipped them in and no reflection .... lol.

I have some tank bottoms painted and others that arent and havent noticed a difference in how the fish react.

I do however use either blue or white styro under my tanks now.


Id still like to hear some kinda proof that what they see when looking at the bottom is any different than what they see when looking at the other 4 sides??

Walk up to your tanks ............... you see a reflection off the bottom but as you get close the reflection goes away because you reduce the angle. I still believe you only see the reflection due to the angle and looking thru 1 piece of glass to another with water in between ............. just like looking in the front of the tank at the sides. You see a reflection there but if you look from 1 side straight thru to the other .... there is no reflection.

Now look at an empty tank. There is no reflection on the bottom or sides.

[Timbo]

its called refraction. the viewer in front of the tank can see a reflection, but the fish cannot. its got to do with the light "bending" (refraction) because of the different density of water versus air.

[Greg Richardson]

Cage. Look at an empty tank? You know that isn't possible. LOL!
Did you miss that part in my post where I said..........

But let's say you are right.

And you very well could be!

I think the reason listed is very important about being able to clean better with lighter bottom makes the reflection point moot.
Still need something on bottom to clean better.


On a different subject. How is your fish room doing? Haven't seen an update in a while unless I missed it. You get it all figured out?

[Kindredspirit]

its called refraction. the viewer in front of the tank can see a reflection, but the fish cannot. its got to do with the light "bending" (refraction) because of the different density of water versus air.

YES! I was thinking this but could not remember the name Tim! You are good babe ~ Do you remember this whole conversation re this? I think I took out that thread....

What you said is exactly true ~

[Graham]

The only reflection that the fish can see is from the inside surface of the glass...no different that us looking through a window. They see no reflection. We see the reflection for the reasons that Tim gave.

G

[Kindredspirit]

Now I know that is it true

[grelot]

I completely agree with cage. I really dont see a reason why the fishes would see a reflection.
I often said the same as cage on some french forums (about how it is impossible for them to see it and the swim goggle test etc)but people seems superstitious and keep covering the bottom.

I dont know where it all started, but this urban legend is hard to stop.

But I can believe that if it is empty under the tank it can have an impact though. But I dont believe in the mirror thing