treating with PP

[fishfan]

Jimmy, at what age can you start using pp on discus?

[JimmyL]

I don't normally use PP on fry unless they are suddenly huddling together in a little black ball being attacked by fluke and I need fast acting treatment. PP can disperse them in a matter of 15 minutes of treatment then neutralize and leave them on H2O2 until the next water change. I use it as little as the size of baby nail finger. Otherwise Formaline is a preferrable choice for their slow acting properties.
Jimmy

[raglanroad]

Carol and Jimmy,
Don't the bacteria, flukes or parasites come back unless you treat the sponges?

[JimmyL]

Yes, you can guarantee they will reproduce and multiply from the sponge come back to haunt you in 2-3 weeks. We have 2 choices here. Disinfect the sponge/filter and risk having an uncycled sponge/filter that will cause Nitrite spike that eventually poison your fish or the other option is to let them reproduce and repeat treatment in 3 days. since most egg hatch in 7-10days. Repeat treatment will basically break the chain of reproduction. Keep doing it for 2 - 3 weeks will most probably elimiate most of it but not all. Repeat in every 2 weeks will keep them in check to have a healthy fish with no chance of infection of any kind just because PP kill undiscriminately. You can acheive the same result with other medications but the total cost will be enormous and risk of antibiotic tolerance may require stronger and heavier dose for future applications.
In addition, the new type of pathgens are more resistance to any chemicals and medication compared to 5 years ago. PP is an old remedy that still work on most but not all. The most unfortunate things is the normal 21 days of quarantine is now unable to eliminated them from the importer's tanks and somehow found their way to many hobbyist's tanks right now. I'm presently testing a whole new line of chemicals that the breeders are using in fish farms and some are proved 10 times more effective than PP but required skills to apply to your fish. They are not ready to the hobbyist's tank yet.
Jimmy

[raglanroad]

Thanks Jimmy.
I imagine the story is no different for the bacterials and such. To me it makes sense then to clean the sponge thoroughly first, to remove the organics, and then leave it in the tank for the PP treatment, or sterilize it separately. The biofilter cycling can be done again.

[Carol_Roberts]

Sometimes the fish are just a little off. . . no need to kill the biofilter . . . just PP the tank and fish, clean the sponges in dechlorinated water . . . everybody perks up . . .

[aziyaeian]

HI Jimmy
Finally I decided to use it.
I tried it only one time, some of them feel better and eat their food but the others not. I think I should repeat it again (as you told us).
The only problem is cloudy water after doing it. What should I do?

The other problem is that I am very new to using it and don’t know what amount of purple color is enough. So I should try it whit mg/lit know.

THX

[cobaltblue]

Can this also be used safely in a planted tank??

[mark neill]

Hello everyone,

Great topic. Carol, Jimmy, can you answer a couple of questions for me please?

I can only get 30% HP will this do the same job in neutralising PP?

Does the tank light have to be off during treatment?

Do I add PP until I start to see a purple haze in the tank?
I am wary of adding too much!

Thanks for the help

Mark

[jim_shedden]

I have been using pp for awhile now. I was lossing $quarter size youngsters continuiously for sometime. Jimmy suggested pp so I tried it. The first time I had concerns but after you try it you begin to get more comfortable. I have been using a small 5 gallon hospital tank for the treatment. I leave them in it for 4 hours and then add H2O2 by the capful (usually about 2-3), the water clears immediately. What can I say: it has worked for me.
By the way..............excellent thread.
Jim

[JimmyL]

30%H2O2 is strong for neutralizing PP. Use it in moderation until the color turn yellow or green in 5 min. In fact, too much H2O2 should not affact them only it may burn fins in extremely high concentration.

Azi....Post treatment after neutalizing with H2O2 should be crystal clear and a black organic slush will settle at the bottom and allow you to siphon it out. You may not have enough PP in your initial treatment. Repeat treament with the same amount will extend the duration next time. You may find it clear up with exactly the same treatment. By preparing a stock solution dissolve about 1gm/500cc. Pour slowly and wait until it distributes evenly before adding more. PP is active when blue or reddish purple (wine) and allow you see the fish without light regardless of Ph. I find it work in both acid and alkaline water. Inactive when turn into brown or yellow. As long as it's blue, the concentration is just fine. Light should not affact the effectiveness of PP as it is mainly used for pond fish. Use a white bottom cup to collect water from the pond to check the concentration. I hope you follow up and document your observation in each treatment and dispell the myth of PP which has been hanging along for too long. Show the difference of behaviour of your fish and Prove that I'm wrong and prove to others that PP is dangerous and kill your fish. You will never use it again.... It even give you and your family cancer... I doubt every much that will be the case.

I'm not 100% sure that PP is safe for plants. A local Koi pond dealer PP all his plants before putting them up for sale.

Jim: Glad to see you not working...fishing. You should put some discus in the lake again. We'll do it next summer. I'll supply your with the fish.

Jimmy

[aziyaeian]

Andrew Soh told me before to add PP 4 times in 3 days. It means I should add PP every 18 hours.
Do you think they can tolerate this amount of Med? What is your idea about Andrew's method?

[JimmyL]

Do you mean continuously for 3 days by adding PP every 18 hours to keep the concentration up? I don't want to contradict others proven treatment. That's not the way I do it. As far as pp treatment is concern. The fish should be watched constantly during the treatment. As long as they start folding their fins and show intolerance to the treatment. I immediately neutralize it and stop the treatment. Rest them for a couple of days and repeat. Only sick fish cannot tolerate the treatment for 4 hours. Duration is very critical. They range from 1/2hr - 4hrs maximum depending on the condition of the fish. Healthy fish sure can tolerate for 24 hours without any problems. It is unnecessary and I cannot keep watching them longer than 4 hours. If I have to leave my fishroom longer than 10 min. I neutralize with H2O2 before leaving . Can't afford to take a chance. That's the beauty of PP that can be stopped any time. You can stop treating your fish with PP or extend the number of days between treatment if you see them begging for food and be able to feed in the dark. You know you have healthy fish. and you will find your fish scatter evenly from bottom to the top of your tank without huddleing at the corner. That's the way they suppose to be. A healthy fish will follow your siphon tube looking for food from the refilling bubbles and don't hide or shy away from you. Any fish do not do that will go to my rosebush as fertilizer. This is the standard or challenge Jim Q and I set when he was alive during our discussion of the pros and cons of PP. I end up getting more and more fish and the poor guy have to go bungie??sp jumping and fry an ultralight plane to ease the frustration his fish had given him by not using PP. We had lots of disagreements and being a wounded veteran threatened to shoot anyone resembling his enemies during the war. We managed to break that barrier with respect to each others knowledge in discus.
Jimmy

[mark neill]

Hi everyone,
Thanks again Carol /Jimmy for all the info.

I treated my fish with PP last night for 4 hrs. I did as Carol advised and put in some at a time until the water had a purple tinge.

After 4hrs added HP a little at a time until the water was crystal clear.

I will continue the treatment over the coming days.

The fish are fine and eating well...

Thanks again

Mark Neill
Scotland