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Thread: LIQUID VITAMINS: Should it be refrigerated? Should it have an expiration date?

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    Registered Member Spices's Avatar
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    Default LIQUID VITAMINS: Should it be refrigerated? Should it have an expiration date?

    Curious to hear how many of you use liquid vitamins to add to your tank or foods as a supplementary diet for your fish.

    Has anyone had any problems with their water composition after installing the liquid vitamins? If yes, please give details.

    Even if you don't have any problems, please share your experiences.

    I've got a bottle that is ineffective and filled with bacteria. I was told it is the culprit of my water composition being so high (filled with nitrates and other stuff). The bottle was purchased last year (summer). Some feel it should have had an expiration date and even refrigerated. How do you feel about it?

    Thanks a million!
    *A*

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    Registered Member Spices's Avatar
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    Default Re: LIQUID VITAMINS: Should it be refrigerated? Should it have an expiration date?

    Okay.. since no one uses liquid vitamins, this is an e-mail I've sent for inquiry to the company.

    Hello,

    I've purchased the Dick Boyd Vita-Chem for Freshwater Fish last year and only used it maybe five times (on and off). I didn't use any more since then until last month when I found my bottle of it in a storage bin. Should this product be refrigerated? It is my understanding that liquid vitamins are usually effective if is refrigerated (especially after one year of non-use). Is there any truth to this? Also, shouldn't there be an expiration date on the bottles of liquid vitamins?

    I thank you for taking the time to reply in full to my inquiries, and with that, I can further discuss with you further.

    Regards,

    Angie

    I'll let you know the outcome. Hopefully someone will respond.


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    Default Re: LIQUID VITAMINS: Should it be refrigerated? Should it have an expiration date?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spices
    Okay.. since no one uses liquid vitamins, this is an e-mail I've sent for inquiry to the company.

    Hello,

    I've purchased the Dick Boyd Vita-Chem for Freshwater Fish last year and only used it maybe five times (on and off). I didn't use any more since then until last month when I found my bottle of it in a storage bin. Should this product be refrigerated? It is my understanding that liquid vitamins are usually effective if is refrigerated (especially after one year of non-use). Is there any truth to this? Also, shouldn't there be an expiration date on the bottles of liquid vitamins?

    I thank you for taking the time to reply in full to my inquiries, and with that, I can further discuss with you further.

    Regards,

    Angie

    I'll let you know the outcome. Hopefully someone will respond.


    In a message dated 7/28/2005 2:35:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, info@boydenterprisesonline.com writes:

    Greetings Sir,

    Thank you first of for trying out our Vita-chem for
    Freshwater product. Was the bin it was stored in inside of
    airconditioning or was it stored in a place with heat like a
    garage? If it was in the garage then or anywhere hot then I
    would refrain from using the product. Yes if you do store it
    in the refridgerator it will last even longer than a year. If
    you would like to send the bottle back to us. I will be happy
    to replace it for you, as well with some samples of our other
    products for your freshwater tank. We have a new line of
    foods fortified with our Vita-chem as well as other products
    soon to be released.

    Best Regards,
    Matthew Boyd
    Boyd Enterprises, Inc.
    1670 NE 205 Terrace
    Miami, FL 33179
    ph 305-651-2496
    fax 305-651-4567


    Hi, Matthew:

    Thanks for your prompt reply. You are correct in guessing the location of the bottle: it was indeed stored in a heated humid environment. I should have refrigerated it but I didn't think I needed to. I will be glad to return the bottle to you but I recently had it examined and tossed out the bottle without even exploring the idea of returning it to the company. My fault. It's allright though. We learn and live. I look forward to getting some of your newly released line of foods enriched with Vita-Chem, however. I haven't yet saw any in the local fish shops by me. But I'll keep my eyes peeled for it.

    Have a good day!!

    Regards,

    Angie

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    Default Re: LIQUID VITAMINS: Should it be refrigerated? Should it have an expiration date?

    I think there was a thread on vitamin use a while back. Barbara seemed to have the largest vitamin use as I remember.

    I use Kent Zoe for freshwater fish. But I've used human and bird liquid vitamins as well. I keep them in the refrigerator, and use them in the food (I soak Tetra bits in about 10 drops of vitamins, and water before I feed them). I use this amount for food for 8 Discus.

    It seems to keep the fish very happy. I have no disease (other than a 3 cases of temporary bloat, attributed to feeding Hikari cichild pellets which was cured with a little epsom salts).

    I have two spawning pairs, and a bunch of fry from one pair (the blue diamond pair has yet to be put alone in a breeding tank, so I don't what they'll do yet), and there may be another pair in the making. This from 8 juvi's I got in December.

    All but 2 are now larger than 5.5 inches.

    I would not use the vitamins directly into the water, only in the food, to keep the nitrates and phosphates down.

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    Registered Member Greg Richardson's Avatar
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    Default Re: LIQUID VITAMINS: Should it be refrigerated? Should it have an expiration date?

    Alight. Can you tell me your method of what you described?

    After using vitamins you then soak them more with water?

    Is the water so they go out of container well?

    Or?
    http://www.atthegateministries.org/index.html

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    Default Re: LIQUID VITAMINS: Should it be refrigerated? Should it have an expiration date?

    Try using some Centurion human vitamin and add a little garlic, this works
    great.

    Cliff

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    Default Re: LIQUID VITAMINS: Should it be refrigerated? Should it have an expiration date?

    Hi,

    I had a feeling that the liquid vitamin should be stored in a cooler environment but never thought it mattered so much. The bottle I had spiked my tank's water composition right out of this world! I had numbers that were soaring high in nitrates, phosphates, ammonia...etc. The bottle was contaminated (expired over a year old). I noticed however in the email he never referred to the inquiry of date expiration. With any given vitamin (such as what I first began using (the Poly-Vi-Sol, infant formula) before I found Vita-Chem), it is written on the bottle the expiration date AND with the infant formula (Poly-Vi-Sol or Tri-Vi-Sol) it had to be refrigerated. Both of these products are liquid vitamins for infants.

    I just thought I'd run this with many of you because I stumbled on this situation which aided in the deaths of my precious cobalts and some koi angels and an altum just recently. Had I not used this bottle this all wouldn't had happened to me.

    It has a tendency to spike if one does not refrigerate and be certain it's not expired, even if you soak it in your fish foods.

    --angie--

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    Default Re: LIQUID VITAMINS: Should it be refrigerated? Should it have an expiration date?

    Angie, I'd certainly refrigerate any liquid vitamins. Unless they have some pretty potent preservatives, they make a pretty good culture media, and you really don't want those preservatives anyway. Even refrigerated, they will go bad in less than a year.

    Greg, I use a large pinch of Tetra bits for each Discus for each meal. I put these in a small dish, and add 3 drops of liquid vitamins for each pinch of tetra bits. This absorbs into the tetra bits almost immediately. Then I add enough aquarium water to cover the tetra bits. I add the water to prehydrate the tetra bits. This allows them to swell before the fish eat them, reducing the chance of bloat. It also softens the tetra bits, which the fish seem to like better. I like this method because the vitamins are well absorbed into the food, so I know the fish are getting it.

    The juvinile discus really get fat on this stuff which I feed 5 -7 times a day. The adults don't get as fat and I only feed them 3 times a day.

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    Default Re: LIQUID VITAMINS: Should it be refrigerated? Should it have an expiration date?

    Thanks Alight! I appreciate it. I'll print that out for my save file.
    http://www.atthegateministries.org/index.html

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    Default Re: LIQUID VITAMINS: Should it be refrigerated? Should it have an expiration date?

    I'm using an old computer to reply to this thread and I have tried 4 times to send it so hopefully this time will go through LOL.

    Alight, after you soak the tetrabits how do you feed it to the fish without the vitamin water going into the tank? How long do you soak them for? LOL. I tried draining the water and removing with my fingers and got mush. Am I soaking too long? I usually just put the dry bits directly in the tank without soaking so this is new for me.

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    Default Re: LIQUID VITAMINS: Should it be refrigerated? Should it have an expiration date?

    I soak the bits for 5-20 minutes (sometimes I forget about them). I use a small spatula or knife to pick the soaked bits up and put them in the tank. You are right that they will turn to mush if you try to pick them up with your fingers. I put the vitamins on first, so they are well soaked into the bits, and only add enough water so that they soak it all up, too. (Generally this is about as much water as it takes to cover the bits). Then, I add the bits to the tank, a little at a time, so the fish eat most of them quickly, before the vitamins leach out. I suspect that the vitamins stay in those that go to the bottom, where there isn't much current, for quite a while.

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    Default Re: LIQUID VITAMINS: Should it be refrigerated? Should it have an expiration date?

    Hexed, dry bits are fine for adults, but then you don't get the added benefit of the liquid vitamins. Dry bits for juvis is not quite as good, as they have difficulty with the larger, harder dry bits, and sometimes refuse to eat them until they've been on the bottom for quite a while. OK with a bare bottom tank, more of a problem for a planted tank.

    Also, if the juvis (or adults) really decide to chow down on the dry bits (happens occasionally with really greedy fish), bloat can result as they swell in the stomach.

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    Default Re: LIQUID VITAMINS: Should it be refrigerated? Should it have an expiration date?

    A quality dry pellet needs no added vitamins, nor will it cause bloat.

    I scratch my head as to why anyone would feed a food that requires an extra daily dose of liquid vitamins? If you feel that your food requires extra supplements of vitamins in order to keep your stock healthy, I'd suggest looking for a new brand of food.

    Fish require a certain amount of vitamins & minerals for good growth and health, the amount varying according to the growth stage & health of the fish. Vitamins fall into two basic categories, water soluble and fat soluble. The former includes Vitamin C and various B vitamins (B1, B2, B6, B12) and the latter Vitamins A, D, E, and K. All these vitamins and several others are added to fish food during the manufacturing process.
    The fat-soluble vitamins can accumulate in fish and cause vitamin poisioning, ie; hypervitaminosis.

    The bottom line is this, adding too much vitamins can cause just as many health issues as not enough vitamins.

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    Default Re: LIQUID VITAMINS: Should it be refrigerated? Should it have an expiration date?

    Over time, vitamins in dry food will degrade over time. Given that we often keep dry foods for long periods of time, and the containers don't usually have expiration dates, it only makes sense to boost the vitamin value with some fresh liquid vitamins. Liquid vitamins usually contain only small amounts of fat soluble vitamins, so it seems that vitamin overdose is unlikely (but I do read labels to make sure!).

    As to "quality" pellet food not causing bloat, I suspect that is more opinion than fact. I have observed that Hikari cichlid pellet food will definitely cause bloat in at least two of my Discus. Of course, this may not be a "quality" food.

    It seems that under acid conditions, several foods that contain yeast can produce gas fairly quickly in a Discus fishes' stomach that is difficult for them to expell and can cause them to float on the surface, dry out and die. Not to mention the internal damage that sudden stomach enlargement can cause.

    As to reasons to soak the pellets, bloat is the 3rd down on my list. The major reason I soak them is that the fish like them better that way. They eat more, and there is less waste.

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    Default Re: LIQUID VITAMINS: Should it be refrigerated? Should it have an expiration date?

    Can bloat be caused from foods loaded with cheap grain fillers, especially when the fish overfeed on said foods, yes, but that wasn't what I said.

    I have a colony of Tropheus moorii, a species of fish that is notorious for getting bloat, yet myself & many others who keep this species have yet to have bloat in our tanks. Different pellet food, and obviously different results than what you're seeing from your pellet food.

    BTW - when you pre-soak those pellets, take a guess where much of the water soluble vitamins are going. They are leaching out into the water they are soaking in. Kind of counterproductive, don't you think?

    Over time, vitamins in dry food will degrade over time. Given that we often keep dry foods for long periods of time, and the containers don't usually have expiration dates, it only makes sense to boost the vitamin value with some fresh liquid vitamins.
    A maker of quality fish food will take vitamin reduction into account when it's being processed, and have the laboratory tests to back those results up. If you're concerned about long term storage I suggest freezing the food, not adding liquid vitamins. I can't speak for other manufacturers, but NLS conducted laboratory tests that show that after 2 years, with food stored under normal room temperature, exposed to air every 3 months, the shrinkage on Vitamins A, E, and C was surprisingly low, as little as 15%.

    If the vitamins in your staple food are borderline low from the get go, and you store the main container under normal room temps, and open the main container on a daily basis, and you are still using it 12+ months later, then you might have cause for concern. Containers that are sealed, with no exposure to light, moisture, or air, should retain most of their nutrient value for close to 2 years. 2 years shelf life is actually an industry standard used by many fish food companies. This is why most won't state a date of manufacture, but simply a 'best before' date.

    Makers of these products such as Kent Zoe, clearly state on the bottle:

    Don't use too much, Zoe is potent!
    Liquid vitamins usually contain only small amounts of fat soluble vitamins, so it seems that vitamin overdose is unlikely
    FYI - per ounce, Kent Zoe contains 5,000 IU of vitamin A, which is the daily requirement for the average adult human.

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