Internal and external parasites, can't find the cure

[Kirehajba]

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?

After adding 2 new discus to my group of Wild Green Discus, last November, my fish started showing signs of external and internal discomfort. Mainly fins flashing and making movements like they want to remove something out of them. Sometimes scratching.
Few fishes started turning dark.
Last month I moved to a new house, and then the fish started dying. At the moment only 5 discus is left and 4 altum angels


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).

Scratching, flashing, clamped gills, headstanding

3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

Over the course of 5 months I have been trying different medicine to resolve the problem:
Manaus Bilocil, Levimicil, TRICHOSAL; to try and treat against external and internal parasites/bacteria.
Also I tried feeding food with Flubendazole for 1 week, repeating the treatment after 2 weeks
After moving to the new house I tried Sera Protazol and Tremazol (all according to their user manuals)




Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
600 Liter, in the past were 10 discus and 5 Altum angel. today 5 discus and 4 altum angel

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
30 % every week. In the past month 10 % daily

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
The tank is 1 month old, but before it was 2 months old with stable ph 5.8-6


7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
No

8. What type/brand water conditioner do you use? Do you add it to the tank or aging barrel? How much do you use?

I use Seachem Discus Trace and Tropic Marin Discus Pro

9. Parameters and water source;

ph 6
kh 0
gh 3
tds ~100
temperature 28 C / 82F

No2 0
No3 20ppm (usually)


Water source RO

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp _28C____

- ph ___5.8__

- ammonia reading ___no_

- nitrite reading ___no_

- nitrate reading _20___

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____

- municipal water ____

- RO water ___yes_


10. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.

6 months I added 2 new fishes. After wards the fish started scratching


11. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.

I feed Tropical dry food pallet: D-50, Discus Wild, Insect Menu etc..
I also feed frozen food: Artemia and Mysts

IMG_8690.jpgIMG_8687.jpgIMG_8686.jpgIMG_8685.jpg

the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

[brewmaster15]

Hello,
It sounds to me like your fish had/have an external parasite ... Probably Flukes by their behavior. Though honestly it could have been any number of protozoans.

Somethings to note..
Your water changes are really insufficient. Especially for a tank of fish with health problems . Water changes not only give the fish clean water but they they remove large numbers of pathogens in the water column.

I think you over medicated the fish trying to help them. You have treated them a lot in the time you have been dealing with this. Too much medication damages organs and could be a factor in the fish deaths. One medication that stands out it is. Trichosal. That's a coppersulfate based medication and copper though effective at killing external parasites can be very toxic at certain levels. It's toxicity increases in acidic water. Water like yours with a pH of 5.8-6 is acidic and with your water change schedule it probably drifting lower at times.

Another med that's potentially a problem is Sera protazol.. It contains Bis(4 dimethylaminophenil) phenilmethyliumhydroxid and the instructions warn weakened fish could be sensitive to it. This chemical is
from my understanding related to malachite green but without the color. I have no idea on its toxicity at various pHs but I can see malachite green being a problem for fish already dealing with organ damage. A quick review of tox data in animals indicates its liver processed and neurological as well.

I am not a chemist by any.means so take all this with that knowledge but I really think you are killing your fish with medications... I would suggest stopping medications and focus on more water changes . Try 30% daily or more.if the fish are stressed with that age and aerate the water. Future fish additions should be quarantined at least 6 weeks before adding to the tank.

Hopefully the impaired fish will recover on their own.


As a matter of note also... Copper accumulates in tanks... You may want to buy some copper test kits to be sure.

Hth,
Al

[Kirehajba]

thank you for your reply! helps a lot!!
And how would you explain that only the latest discus (that I think the virus come from) is OK, and the altums and the rest of the fishes are ok as well.

Thanks
Kire

[AquaticNerd]

The way I would explain it is this - the new discus were carrying the protozoan/infection and were already used to the disease and were not outwardly/visibly affected. The existing fish were not accustomed to the disease and/or severity of the disease, and are not able to fight it off from their immune systems alone. As to why it is only affecting your discus and not other fishes, it is likely due to it being a disease that only affects your discus.