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First, let me preface this question with the statement that I know there are alot of variables here, but assuming healthy fish, regular water changes and a good diet, what size should discus be at 1 month of age?, 3 months, 6 months, 9 months etc.. At what age would they likely be ready to breed? thanx, Steve
Wow, too many variables LOL. In a perfect world....well, I'd PM a sponsor and maybe they can tell you how theirs normally turn out ;). Are you looking for a theoretically speaking for your situation?Quote:
First, let me preface this question with the statement that I know there are alot of variables here, but assuming healthy fish, regular water changes and a good diet, what size should discus be at 1 month of age?, 3 months, 6 months, 9 months etc.. At what age would they likely be ready to breed? thanx, Steve
Check this link out
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=57255
Eddie
Hi there.
I was wondering the same and looked everywhere to find this information,....what is the average size of a well developed discus at a certain age. Unfortunately I could not find a proper answer until yesterday when I received an e-mail from Discus Hans. This is what Hans wrote me abouth the size vs age.
The average growth of Stendker Discus:
2 - 2 1/2" = 3 months of age
3 - 3 1/2" = 4 1/2 months of age
4" = 6 months of age
5" = 9 months of age
6" = 18 months of age
7"+ = 2 years of age
I hope this answers your question. All credits to Hans and thanks for the info.
What is the life expectancy of healthy, properly maintained Discus?
From what I have read and what has been told by some (breeders) an age around 9 or 10 years is very well possible. Maybe someone can confirm this.
With all due respect to Hans, and the Stendker products, these are the rates for a specific breeder's line of fish - a line that it known to all to be considered "large" by USA norms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch dude
So, what would these numbers be if they weren't for Stendkers? If they were your "average" discus available in the USA? Assuming there is such a thing as "average".
Thanks. :)
Maybe I should include that after posting the measurements I contacted Hans to check if this was size in TL or SL and Hans replied that the fish come with a tail and his measurements includes the tail.
I was looking for size vs age info my selves and so far this is the info I received and put it on here. I don't doubt there are lots of people who have diferent experiences but unfortunately no one provided the info on here. The info Hans gave is a nice guideline to check if fish are on track with growth rate. Some might experience their fish are larger at a certain age and some (probably most) might discover their fish are smaler. To me the info Hans gave is great and I discovered my Stendker discus are perfectly on track. So this proves I do OK on growing out my first discus.
Maybe some other breeders can provide more info and share their age/size experience. That would be great!
Steve,
I had a pair of Asian bred Cobalts that pushed 9" TL back in the '90's, and saw a pair of Viet Nam raised Red Dragons that exceeded 9" about 4 yeras ago in Seattle. Not everybody is raising the Stendkers to slab size.
Don't you think that perhaps proper husbandry plays a big part in the size? I think alot of USA discus keepers want to raise discus the way they want to raise discus, which is not necessarilary the best way. Or ought I say the optimal way?
What do you think?
Mat
Well Mat, the husbandry question is right on target. Even a newbie like me knows that it clearly makes a difference in both size at a given age, and the eventual fully grown size of fish.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinShin
But from what I can tell, Stendker's reputation for being large is not just because their owners tend to provide good conditions for them. It appears that they really do tend (not always) to be larger (all things being equal). It's no different than their current reputation for being prolific breeders. I can't prove it. I don't have the experience. But there are people on this board, who's opinion I trust, that have them and believe that. Same thing for with their reputation for size.
So yes, you had a very large Cobalt. :) There will always be exceptional fish. I guess what it breaks down to is this...
If Stendkers really are bigger than your average discus seen in the USA (all things being equal, and not in every instance), then a modified - more "normal" - set of size/age guidelines would be nice. And if we all believe that Stendkers do not tend to get bigger, then the guidelines Hans provided are great! :thumbsup:
Mat,.....a Discus of 9 inch would be realy awesome but from what I have seen and read this size doesn't seem to be "normal" and exceptional large.
I asked Hans what the size of a Stendker discus should be if the fish was normal developed for it's age. He came up with the mentioned sizes. I have Stendker fish so for that it was very useful info to me. I do agrea on Steve that some of the strains might be smaler as the Stendker/ European strains. Maybe line breeding is a possible reason for that. If you check on the pics of my Stendkers you can notice lots of red dots,...what could point to some RSG blood down the line. Could this crossing explain a larger size? If so those small lines could be of a poor qualety in-bread fish (explanation for the small size?)and imo would not be a good choice to check the normal development and potential size at a certain age. What are your thoughts?
The size/age info from Hans is typical of all discus that are raised properly and has nothing to do with the fact that they are from Stendker IMO. I raise only spotted asian fish and have had growth raits of up to 4" in four months and as low as 3" in four and a half months. I think the average is around an inch a month for the first 3 mo, afterwhich it slows down.
The strain/line can make a difference in the end size of the adult, but I think Stendkers being known for there size is due to the methods used to grow them out.
Kacey
I do tip my hat to Stendker for his line of consistantly large fish. I bought juveniles and raised them with fish the same age from another source, and Stendkers outgrew the other source. All else being equal, the genetics had to come into play.
Over the years I have had San Merahs from several sources (4, I believe). Only once was I able to get them beyond 6"TL, not even close to 6"SL Stendkers achieved. I currently have some that I grewout with some SS's, both from the same source, same shipment, that have lagged behind. I will admit here that I did a poor job of growing them out, but both strains were subjected to the same neglect, and the SS's are much larger at this point.
Well established strains seem to grow larger, while the newer color varients may lag behind because of lack of time to establish a good line though selective breeding? This is not a "statement" rather a question posed to get a decent discussion going about discus. ;)
Mat
Hey Mat,
I've only bred a few strains so can't make many comparisons of that sort. I did find it interesting at one point to find that a particuler match up between two fish that had many large offspring with other fish, would result in slow growing smallish offspring whenever paired together. The male was a 7" Spotted Eruption and the female a 5.5" SE I bought from a different source. Both fish produced fast growing large fry with multiple other partners, but not with each other.
Anyone care to speculate on why?
Kacey
I had a similar experience....I had two spottted leopards that that produced S L O W growing fry.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaceyo
Yea - anybody care to chime in?? I've been wanting that questioned asked for a while.
Yes the post is old but I have resurrected it.
hi i feed my young only on ultimate beef heart from there very first feed and mine are the following
4 weeks 1" approx
8 weeks 2" bang on
11-12 weeks 3" as close as makes no difference
usually all sold out by then lol
im doing my best to get my foods over to the us and progressing very well time will tell lol
Just for clarification - I beleive the questioned that was not answered for kaceyo was that two spotted types were bred and they produced small slow growing fish. I too bred two spotted type and I also got the same result.
So what we want to know is why?? The question is in particular to the spotted strain.
Are we talking about SL or TL?Quote:
Originally Posted by Taylor Discus
This is a specialized Discus website. There has to be someone who can explain why two spotted Discus produce slow growing fry??
Are the water changes frequent and stable with this batch of fry? Is the fry/growing on tank big enough as I am lead to believe that discus produce/excrete a hormone that can inhibit there growth in small tanks. There are so many reasons why that pair would produce slow grow young, maybe it's one of those things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Josef
Well.. i think the slow growth is due to the fact that the spotted varieties are selected from a relatively small gene pool , hence too much inbreeding resulting in slow growing weak(?)fry.Also ,when you select for certain traits such as pattern ,color etc..if there is a weakness in line you inadvertently select that too..so the weakness is amplified too.....this is my thinking...i may be totally wrong.
I agree. Inbreeding is basically what is going on when creating these new strains. When you inbreed, mutations happens. I don't think you can use a "one size" fits all for measuring all discus. They are all different, and some weird things will happen when they keep breeding within the same strains.
I think you are onto something here. Some of these speciality strains are spawning at small sizes. I see it all the time on Simply and have experienced it myself. Some of my discus from Kenny have laid eggs at 4" to 4.5" and these fish had nearly full coloration at those sizes. Unless I was shipped fish that were already stunted (which I highly doubt), I think it has to do with what's being discussed in this thread. Some discus strains should be measured on a smaller scale and some strains grow slower than others. On the flip side, my German Piwowarski discus at 5" didn't not have full coloration and had no interest in spawning. It wasn't until they were over 6" and 18 months old that I saw them pair off. I believe it's because the Piwowarski strain of Red Turk and Cobalts is not a "specialty" or "designer" strain.Quote:
Originally Posted by bornlooser
I live in Kokomo and am looking for a local Discus breeder to buy from. Do your Discus spawn and do you sell them if so I'd prefer to buy juvenile Discus sometimes they're cheaper to purchase. I also know of 2 pet store owners looking to buy full grown Discus. I'm also intersted in buying Angelfish or Flowerhorn Cichlids if you breed those or know of anyone who does. My email is suzukirider98@yahoo.com please contact me if you have any info or Discus I can purchase. I own 3 discus now and seem to have luck with caring for them so I'm trying to setup another aquarium and possibly even breeding some if I'm lucky enough to have a couple pair up and spawn. Thanks and any info would be helpful and appreciated.