Juveniles vs adults ????

[Coffee1stLife2nd]

sure this has been asked 100 times...BUT if i buy juvies i would buy them in groups of six i also understand the importance of all the EXTRA hard work it takes to raising them to be adult.. OK if i buy adults could i just buy them in groups of 2 would they feel comfortable and still not be stressed as much.. and will they be fine when i keep adding other groups of 2 ???? .....just thinking of cost since i will be getting 18 total....
Thanks a bunch...Tina

[Second Hand Pat]

Tina, try sub-adults at about 4 inches. Not as needy as juvies or expensive as adults :) Start with a group of six and then add in groups of two. Remember to QT :) Pat

[Skip]

4" is way to go.. :)

[Coffee1stLife2nd]

with 4in shouldn't i still have a bb tank? would really love to have sand and plants...

[Second Hand Pat]

Tina, are plants new to you? If so master one first, then the other. You will find many here (including me) on the forum try that and find they can not keep the tank clean enough. You could try potted with BB if you like the look. Would suggest low light, low tech starting out. :) Pat

[Coffee1stLife2nd]

was thinking low tech

[Second Hand Pat]

Here's another thought. Go BB or very shallow sand bed with the first group and get use to the routine (feeding, cleaning and WCs). Especially with a large tank. Give it a couple of months and if you stay out of the disease section try a few plants. :)

[Larry Bugg]

Pat is hinting around at what I would suggest so let me expand on it a little. Two adults at a time really isn't an ideal situation, especially depending on how long between purchases. The first two may have a lot of aggression. The second 2 put you at 4 and you may have even more aggression. So...............if you can afford 5 or 6 at 4" then you will be at a good number. It will take you about 5 to 6 months to grow them out. Keep the tank bare bottom for this period of time. It will make your life SO much easier and the discus will appreciate it. It is really pretty easy to go from a bare bottom to a planted tank. Simply take the discus out and put them in a temporary container. A ice chest or rubberrmaid storage bin work great. Add your substrate and plants. Fill it back up and put the discus back in. Half a day. Your tank is already cycled because you will continue to use the same filter. When you are ready to add to the original discus to get to your eventual 18 then start adding adults, 1 or 2 at a time. You are in no rush at this point and can spread the purchases out over as much time as you need.

6 months really isn't that long a time to wait and have a planted tank especially since it will help insure your discus are big and healthy.

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Larry :)

[Larry Bugg]

Thanks Larry :)

LOL, your Idea. I just added some details. I think that is where you were heading?

[jlcoop277]

I'd have to agree, before I knew what I know now I started with 2 juvies. I've had them about a year, and only in the last 3-4 months learned the right way to care for them. Their growth has taken off and are now 5" I've added 4 more to the pair and they are aggressive towards the other 4. It's getting better, 3 are in Q to help get some size on them.
I would for sure go with 6.

I also have a lightly planted tank and it does add a lot more work in keeping it clean.

[Coffee1stLife2nd]

Thanks that does answer my question... i will go bb with 6 4in ...i would like to add driftwood though im sure i can work with that...another ? since they will be smaller should i contain them to a section of the tank or give them free roam of the whole 180 gl???? Thanks

[Second Hand Pat]

Tina, I have 6 2.5 to 3.5 inch juvies in a BB 40 breeder and I added a couple of small pieces of DW to help provide a little cover and ease the aggression. I push the DW out of the way for vacuuming so I say go for it. No experience on your partitioning question so will leave that to others.

[jimmyjoe]

I'm not trying to rob this thread but I do have a question for you Pat, just how long does it take you to do w/c's and a cleaning of your 230........................Jim in Ohio

[Second Hand Pat]

Jim, send you a PM :)

[Darrell Ward]

If you buy any juvies, I would suggest you buy them all at once from the same supplier, and do not add any other species. No catfish or other fish that may expose them to unwanted parasites. It will be a lot less trouble, since they all came from the same systems, and are in their own tank, no need to quarantine. They will feel much more secure in a larger group, will all be about the same size, at least at first, and smaller fish will enjoy better water conditions in the larger tank.

[hedut]

buy juv grow GIANT than you will proud with them :)

[Bud Smith]

buy juv grow GIANT than you will proud with them :)

+ 1

[fattubwhale]

If your going the Juvie route are you planning on growing these guys out in a smaler tank??? I only ask because in your other thread you mentioned possible purchasing a 180g... And, if thats the case it would be too much tank space for juvies. It would be a perfect tank for adults though!
You will drive youself up the wall with the daily water changes in the 180 and alot of wasted water as well.... they would better pff raised in like a 40 breeder or a 55 depending on how many you decide to purchase... JMO.

[steakman]

Juveniles vs Adults

Try to answer these questions yourself, then you would know which way to go or in this case which one to pick:

Juveniles:

- die before reaching adulthood

- might not become the same fish or the color you expect in the first place

- stunted

- too much to take care for

- easy to get sick, and will never get completely healthy ... etc ...


Adults:

- what you see is what you get (full color, 99% Id-able, shape, size ... etc)

- easier to take care for

- stronger, and harder to get sick

- harder to be (killed ... :D)

- Once you put the adult fish in, you don't have to worry about the next move. It's all set. Sit back and enjoy.

IMO, there is less worried, less sleepless nights if you go with adult discus. And also it'll come with a whole lot less challenge.

To some ppl, this is what they really want. For them, this is the most fun they can get from raising discus - the challenge.

For others, like me ... :D, we are too chicken to charge head on ... you, yes, you in the corner, you don't have to raise your hand ... :D

I had 1 stunted discus in the past, which I had spent more time to care for him alone than for the others, 7 in all.

He had his own 20 gallon tank (in the big tank he was constantly picked on, because he was the smallest. He had never had a chance to eat).

It's a love and hate relationship between me and him. It was hard and frustrated to see him picked on the flakes then spited most out.

It was harder to see his off-color skin and football shape body shown skin and bone.

Oh well, I don't want to scare you off.

My 2 cent.

Good luck.

[walt3]

i purchased 6 - 2.5 inch fish and have been growing them out in a planted tank. i started down this road before i knew better. it has been alot of work for sure. there about 4 inches now and doing pretty well. however i have lots of gravel which i am commited to vacing aggressively every other day in addition to daily water changes. i do about 1/3 daily. might start doing even more.:) in hind sight i would have went with a shallow sand bottom maybe. less places for dirt to hide. i really wanted a planted discus tank but had not realized that young fish need so much extra care in the water department. they also need lots of food constantly. that is a big reason for the water change routine. good luck. walt.

[Skip]

Coffee.. how many fish do you want to end with?!

if you end up buying small fish.. get 3 extra.. cuz at least 3 will be slow growers or stunted (for what ever reason) the others will grow out nice..

if you buy 6 small ones.. and 2-3 are slow.. or just don't grow.. you will be unhappy. speaking from past experience..

[Darrell Ward]

If your going the Juvie route are you planning on growing these guys out in a smaler tank??? I only ask because in your other thread you mentioned possible purchasing a 180g... And, if thats the case it would be too much tank space for juvies. It would be a perfect tank for adults though!
You will drive youself up the wall with the daily water changes in the 180 and alot of wasted water as well.... they would better pff raised in like a 40 breeder or a 55 depending on how many you decide to purchase... JMO.

Whoa cowboy! I've raised juvies in a 180, 240, and 300 gal. in the past. A 180 gal. is fine for growout with about a dozen discus. Why the heck would you need to do daily water changes on a 180 with juvies? Duh! You wouldn't. "The solution to pollution is dilution". So, 180 gal. of water would be a lot of dilution to a little bit of juvie pollution. 50% water changes with minor adjustments, once or twice a week would be perfectly acceptable.

[fattubwhale]

Whoa cowboy! I've raised juvies in a 180, 240, and 300 gal. in the past. A 180 gal. is fine for growout with about a dozen discus. Why the heck would you need to do daily water changes on a 180 with juvies? Duh! You wouldn't. "The solution to pollution is dilution". So, 180 gal. of water would be a lot of dilution to a little bit of juvie pollution. 50% water changes with minor adjustments, once or twice a week would be perfectly acceptable.

obviously, I guess I stand corrected!!! I'm not here trying to make an A$$ of myself or act like I know everything but, From all I read and what i see others talk about most/everyone on here preaches 50-80% water changes daily and that the juvies would have better growth... and with juvies in a larger tank they always have a hard time finding there food VS adults!
I guess everyday I learn something new...

[Darrell Ward]

LOL! Not trying to be an a$$ either, I am just sometimes a bit blunt, a fault I guess. Seriously, more water is good, cleaner water with fewer changes, to maintain the same level of "clean". The fish usually learn real quick where the food is, and goes, in the tank. Either way is fine though, smaller or larger tanks. As long as they get clean water, good food, it's all good. Different ways to accomplish the same thing.

[fattubwhale]

I guess there is always 2 ways to a right :) I just wish everyone was on the same page... I makes learning really really difficult :D

[Coffee1stLife2nd]

Ok Finally bought my 180 but instead of buying it new I save BIG $ buying off craigs list.. same exact tank, stand and canopy, but along with it i got a huge over flow filter system not exactly sure on the correct term of the filter (big clear box,multi levels)...LOL..guess i will now have to do reading on that..everything looks perfect on the tank no scratches, silicone all looks great, no lights but it does have LED moon lights. it also came with alot of Milasion *sure not spelled right*driftwood... Nice pieces but very thick not sure if i will use them or not...there is also alot of cleaning that needs to be done. He actually grew Orchids (flowers) in the tank....we were going to move this weekend but due to paper mistakes we have to wait till end of this month.. so this way it will atleast give me another month to clean and do more research before i even start setting this beast up... I have gotten so much info off of the site..I LOVE IT..its my favorite spot on the web right now....Thanks You All....

[Second Hand Pat]

I got my 230 from CL and love the tank. That is super you were able to find the exact tank, stand and canopy. Clean well especially with fertilizers from the orchids. You may consider checking for leaks before filling it inside. :)
Pat