oversized heater question

[mugzy213]

Im getting ready to buy some heater for a couple of my tanks 3(20 gals) and was wondering if i should over size my heater since there only a few buck more?

is that a no no to put a 200w heater in a 20 gal?


thanks

[Apistomaster]

I use 100 watt heaters on all my tanks from 4.5 gal to 40 gal.
Ambient temperatures are high enough to make using only 100 watt heaters feasible on the 40's. I find it simpler to standardize as much as possible when having many tanks.
Many feel safer using 2 heaters equaling the one recommended wattage because some how if one heater happens to stick in the on position I guess they think they will detect the problem before their fish get cooked. I only see that it only makes a difference in how soon the fish get cooked.
As long as you never have a heater malfunction there is no harm in oversizing it.
A 100 watt heater in a 4.5 gal spawning tank is much more drastic than a 200 watt heater on a 20 gal tank. I have bred a lot of small species using this set up.
Heaters are the most problematic and poorly engineered piece of essential equipment used in this hobby. It hardly makes any difference on how much you pay for them as all are very prone to failures of all kinds.

[mugzy213]

thanks, ill just get the 100w then:)




I use 100 watt heaters on all my tanks from 4.5 gal to 40 gal.
Ambient temperatures are high enough to make using only 100 watt heaters feasible on the 40's. I find it simpler to standardize as much as possible when having many tanks.
Many feel safer using 2 heaters equaling the one recommended wattage because some how if one heater happens to stick in the on position I guess they think they will detect the problem before their fish get cooked. I only see that it only makes a difference in how soon the fish get cooked.
As long as you never have a heater malfunction there is no harm in oversizing it.
A 100 watt heater in a 4.5 gal spawning tank is much more drastic than a 200 watt heater on a 20 gal tank. I have bred a lot of small species using this set up.
Heaters are the most problematic and poorly engineered piece of essential equipment used in this hobby. It hardly makes any difference on how much you pay for them as all are very prone to failures of all kinds.

[Jhhnn]

Im getting ready to buy some heater for a couple of my tanks 3(20 gals) and was wondering if i should over size my heater since there only a few buck more?

is that a no no to put a 200w heater in a 20 gal?


thanks

I wouldn't exceed 5W/gal, the high end of the usually recommended range. I'll agree that heaters are the weakest link in aquarium equipment, which is why I use what are arguable the best- Eheim Jagers. Buying online, from Kensfish or Igopro, the price premium is small, the service and convenience worth the small wait... If you have no spares, it's smart to order one or two while you're at it, just in case.

Cheapo heaters are dangerous to you and your fish, and a very poor place to try to save money.

[nc0gnet0]

Many feel safer using 2 heaters equaling the one recommended wattage because some how if one heater happens to stick in the on position I guess they think they will detect the problem before their fish get cooked. I only see that it only makes a difference in how soon the fish get cooked.

I get what your saying but, depending on room (ambient) temperature, one heater at a smaller wattage stuck on will hit its cieling temperature much lower than one at twice the wattage. For instance, I have a cheapo 50 watt heater that is stuck on, I use it (along with another larger heater) on my 55 gallon RO barrel. This heater alone won't ever heat the water past 74 degrees, even though it is on constantly.

[brewmaster15]

is that a no no to put a 200w heater in a 20 gal?
10 watts per gal is fine.... as long as the heaters thermostat works.. but should it fail..well lets just say you have far less time to notice the heater has an issue than if you went with 5 watts per gal.

If you have the outlets...2 smaller heaters is better than one big one.....less chance of a problem being fatal and if there is a problem....more time to detect it!

hth,
al

[Apistomaster]

I happen to agree that Eheim Jager heaters are the best consumer level water heaters.
Unfortunately even the best is none too good. I bought my first one about the same time as my first Eheim filters. They were introduced to the USA market circa 1968. Their heater failure rate does not go down at the same rate as their prices increased. If they were good enough to justify it then I would have paid the price and used nothing but. They are marginally the best heater but still have much room improvement.

I also use a 250 watt Stealth heater which is stuck in the permanently on position which i plug into my two connected 55 gal RO storage barrels. A power head maintains the circulation when using the heater. It depends on what time of the year but when its coldest the heater is plugged in about 8 hours before I plan to draw down the reservoirs. During our summers it rarely gets below 100*F and for about a months temps are 105 to 118*F and I don't need to warm up my RO water. I think my fish appreciate a freshet of only 80*F water during the summer when my highest aquariums hover around 88*F.
Hot temps are some of the reasons i specialize in breeding warm water fancy plecos and of course, Discus. I really miss my Killiefish. Most were happy in room temperatures of 70 to 74*F.

One of these days i am going to box up about 24 Stealth Heaters and send them back to Marineland to see what their lifetime guarantee is worth. The majority just stopped working or peak at about 75*F. relatively few are "burners" and I find that odd. I like their newest design because they finally provided a pilot light in the control knob. The reasons why I keep buying them is they are virtually impossible to break in the conventional manner and heaters in the same price range are not any more reliable.

[nc0gnet0]

The biggest issues I have with heater is they all have cheap thermostats. This is the part that fails 90 % of the time. For this reason I have gone with external thermostats that offer a far tighter range of control. With one of these thermostats (which I get for 20 bucks plus shipping) I can couple a 17 dollar 300 watt elite heater and have it outperform the jagars hands down.

[Foxfire]

The biggest issues I have with heater is they all have cheap thermostats. This is the part that fails 90 % of the time. For this reason I have gone with external thermostats that offer a far tighter range of control. With one of these thermostats (which I get for 20 bucks plus shipping) I can couple a 17 dollar 300 watt elite heater and have it outperform the jagars hands down.

And you get these were???

[mugzy213]

The biggest issues I have with heater is they all have cheap thermostats. This is the part that fails 90 % of the time. For this reason I have gone with external thermostats that offer a far tighter range of control. With one of these thermostats (which I get for 20 bucks plus shipping) I can couple a 17 dollar 300 watt elite heater and have it outperform the jagars hands down.

Darn if i could have talked with you yesterday:) I ordered 4 jagar:)

oh well,

What site do can you get the external thermostats at?

[Jhhnn]

I also use external controllers with my Jagers- Finnex brand hc-0800 from kensfish. I calibrate the jagers and set their internal thermostats to 88-90F, use the controllers to regulate temperature at a lower value. I get a backup system to avoid cooked fish. There are other reasons I like the jagers- they really are quite tough, with good cords and decent pilot lights, and I haven't found any horror stories about them exploding like the new model stealths... They were the best I could get 20 years ago, and they're actually better and more affordable today. $25 ain't what it used to be...

nc0gnet0 gets his controllers from an ebay vendor, iirc. They may be better or worse than the Finnex, dunno- we just exercise different variations on the same theme- redundant control over runaway heaters...

[Eddie]

Darn if i could have talked with you yesterday:) I ordered 4 jagar:)

oh well,

What site do can you get the external thermostats at?


Dont worry dude, you'll be fine. ;)

[nc0gnet0]

QUOTE]I also use external controllers with my Jagers- Finnex brand hc-0800 from kensfish. I calibrate the jagers and set their internal thermostats to 88-90F, use the controllers to regulate temperature at a lower value. I get a backup system to avoid cooked fish. There are other reasons I like the jagers- they really are quite tough, with good cords and decent pilot lights, and I haven't found any horror stories about them exploding like the new model stealths... They were the best I could get 20 years ago, and they're actually better and more affordable today. $25 ain't what it used to be...[/QUOTE]

I emailed Kens fish and asked if he could get the jager probes (jager heater, always on for use with a external controller), never did here back from him. I don't have any expierance with the finnex controller, unless it is the same controller that is on the finnex 500 watt heater.......its ok, but still have to fiddle with it to get the temp right. Now the controller jhhn has may be better.

The controllers I use are indeed an ebay unit like these:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Mini-Digital-Temperature-Controller-Thermostat-Aquarium-/280513469931?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item414fe7ddeb

[mugzy213]

I'm confused how the external heater contols work? Can you just plug a jagar Heater into the back of the exteral temp box???

I guess my question is how they connect with eachother?

Thanks



QUOTE]I also use external controllers with my Jagers- Finnex brand hc-0800 from kensfish. I calibrate the jagers and set their internal thermostats to 88-90F, use the controllers to regulate temperature at a lower value. I get a backup system to avoid cooked fish. There are other reasons I like the jagers- they really are quite tough, with good cords and decent pilot lights, and I haven't found any horror stories about them exploding like the new model stealths... They were the best I could get 20 years ago, and they're actually better and more affordable today. $25 ain't what it used to be...

I emailed Kens fish and asked if he could get the jager probes (jager heater, always on for use with a external controller), never did here back from him. I don't have any expierance with the finnex controller, unless it is the same controller that is on the finnex 500 watt heater.......its ok, but still have to fiddle with it to get the temp right. Now the controller jhhn has may be better.

The controllers I use are indeed an ebay unit like these:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Mini-Digital-Temperature-Controller-Thermostat-Aquarium-/280513469931?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item414fe7ddeb[/QUOTE]

[nc0gnet0]

The controllers have a plug recepticle in the back you plug the heater into. This recepticle is turned on and off by the temperature controller. With the controller I use, you do have to do some wiring (takes like 5 minute and minimum know how).

[mmorris]

One of these days i am going to box up about 24 Stealth Heaters and send them back to Marineland to see what their lifetime guarantee is worth. The majority just stopped working or peak at about 75*F. relatively few are "burners" and I find that odd. I like their newest design because they finally provided a pilot light in the control knob. The reasons why I keep buying them is they are virtually impossible to break in the conventional manner and heaters in the same price range are not any more reliable.

I like them for the same reasons you do, and I have returned - I think seven - heaters which were replaced no questions asked. About as many stuck on as refused to turn on. One of my new ones blew out right through the side, stinking up the upstairs something terrible so that had to be replaced as well.

[Jhhnn]

The finnex controllers have a dongle, a female plug on the end of a short length of cord, which is where any heater can be plugged in. The smaller cord to the thermistor is shorter than I'd like, ~3', and there's a wire clip gizmo to hang it on the side of the tank. The power cord is ~6' long, entirely sufficient.

As I offered earlier, the way I get the controller to do the work is to calibrate the jager, set it to a higher temp than desired (88-90F), then plug it in to the controller, set that at a low temp. In normal operation, the jager thermostat stays closed, but it's still in the circuit in case the controller fails on... If the measured water temp jumps up from the usual 85F, I'll see that sooner or later, and realize the controller has failed. It hasn't happened yet. Capische?

It does take some time & fiddling to calibrate the jagers and to set the dial on the controllers (not necessarily well calibrated). I do each heater in a fishless tank, then add a controller to it, set that, and it's ready to go. I just allow 12-24 hrs between adjustments to make sure the heater is cycling at the desired temp. Once done, it's steady, easily adjustable, and theoretically safer (overheat-wise) than a heater alone...

I may try some of nc0gnet0's controllers when I add more tanks- looks like the probe wiring is longer, for more install options.

[Foxfire]

QUOTE]I also use external controllers with my Jagers- Finnex brand hc-0800 from kensfish. I calibrate the jagers and set their internal thermostats to 88-90F, use the controllers to regulate temperature at a lower value. I get a backup system to avoid cooked fish. There are other reasons I like the jagers- they really are quite tough, with good cords and decent pilot lights, and I haven't found any horror stories about them exploding like the new model stealths... They were the best I could get 20 years ago, and they're actually better and more affordable today. $25 ain't what it used to be...

I emailed Kens fish and asked if he could get the jager probes (jager heater, always on for use with a external controller), never did here back from him. I don't have any expierance with the finnex controller, unless it is the same controller that is on the finnex 500 watt heater.......its ok, but still have to fiddle with it to get the temp right. Now the controller jhhn has may be better.

The controllers I use are indeed an ebay unit like these:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Mini-Digital-Temperature-Controller-Thermostat-Aquarium-/280513469931?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item414fe7ddeb[/QUOTE]

Thanks! I just ordered one. I went to the site and they look good - I have paid a lot more for controllers in the past and they didn't include a temp probe!
:)

Considering how much I paid for my discus and the high end heaters I have, I have still worried. This is a good fail safe - yes, the tank will cool if either unit fails but that gives me a lot of time to discover this before problems, unlike a run away heater cooking my fish at night. The units I saw at DFS are near $90.

[nc0gnet0]

Just remember the contollers I use need you to wire a power cord and dongle to it. They are nice if your going to hard mount it to your stand/cabinet/hood. but this is not neccesary. On the plus side they are digital, no fiddling with knobs and dials, and have a high/low temp alarm. Supposed to handle up to 2500 watts, although I would never try them with that load. I have used it on at 1500 watt heater though without issue.