What does "Peppering" mean?

[Coral Keeper]

I'm reading a ton about Discus and I always see the word "peppering", what does it mean? Does it mean the Discus get a bunch of black tiny dots? If so, how do they get it and why? Thanks in advance!

[dbfzurowski]

hey,
yup its the black dots on fish. Pigeon blood strains have it.

[Coral Keeper]

Whats the reason they get it?

[dbfzurowski]

they are like stress bars on some other stains, why? just the way it is...

[ZX10R]

I'm reading a ton about Discus and I always see the word "peppering", what does it mean? Does it mean the Discus get a bunch of black tiny dots? If so, how do they get it and why? Thanks in advance!

This is my Marlboro Red all those black dots around his face and fins is "peppering" I have a pigeon blood and a pigeon blood blue that look like this also.
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac101/sig4s/Discus/Picture001.jpg

[Remora]

If you have alot of dark items in the tank (gravel, background, ect), the fish tend to pepper more. I read somewhere on here that peppering is also genetic, so if you have fry from a peppered parents, they'relikely to get peppering easily too. But don't quote me on that. lol

I have a P.Blood that has a faint bit of peppering on him, from the gravel I'm using I assume. Personally, I like the look of a little peppering. Makes the fish even more unique.

[Coral Keeper]

Oh, ok. What color background and what color gravel do you need to have so they wont pepper?

[NunoDinis]

Hi,

You need white background and white sand.
Though you might have a bit of a problem once there is people that say that discus like darker environments... i never heard mine asking me that...:)

[Coral Keeper]

Will a light blue background work just as well as a white background? What if I go with eco complete substrate or ADA aquasoil and I put the whole bottom with carpet plants so the bottom will be all green? Will that work?

[ZX10R]

As you can see in the pic my background is a light blue to a white in color and 3 of mine are still peppering a lot. I almost agree that it has something to do with genetics from the parents. I know dark background colors play a part in making the fish turn darker color but I don't believe it is all of the cause of peppering. Atleast it isn't in my case since I have really light color background and it doesn't seem to be helping the peppering.

[nc0gnet0]

[begin rant]

I would love to see some conclusive proof that dark backgrounds are a direct link to peppering. What about different types of lighting? 6700K 10,000 k, halogen, flourescent, actinic?

Hardness of water? PH levels? I know higher PH will lead to "shimmies" in koi, and has been documented, yet I here all the time that higher PH is fine for discus on this board. Has anyone drawn any conclusions about PH and peppering?

Diet?

I dunno, I maybe be the only skeptic about the link between dark backgrounds and peppering, but doesn't anyone else find it odd that this link has never been applied to any other species of fish? Can anyone offer any conclusive proof of the link?

Now, when we say "peppering" are we talking about the fish darkening itself to fit the environment ( a temporary condition ) or are we talking about a permanent discoloration of the fish?

[/rant]

[Jhhnn]

As I understand it, peppering is exclusive to discus having pigeon blood ancestry.


Pigeon Blood Discus were developed in Thailand and took the discus world by storm. Pigeon Bloods do not have vertical stress bars and can range in color from white to yellow, bright orange or nearly red. They can be solid in color or overlaid with patterns of striations and spots. The first Pigeon Bloods were heavily covered with black speckling, known as pepper. Pepper has been greatly reduced in the Pigeon Bloods being offered for sale today.

http://www.discusnada.org/discus/history.html

I've never kept PB's, but I suspect that peppering is largely genetic, an inherited characteristic. The peppering, if present, may present itself as lighter or darker, but I seriously doubt that any environmental factors would increase or decrease the actual amount of it on a given fish...

[TankWatcher]

Some pigeons will pepper heavily in a darker environment, but some pigeons don't seem to be as badly effected. My planted tank has a black painted background and ADA amazonia soil. Only one of my discus is a pigeon blood (bought it before I knew what my darker tank might do to it). I have been lucky and that pigeon blood only ever peppered the tiniest bit. So even though it is only pigeons that will pepper, some pigeons pepper up more than others, so I think genetics does have something to do with it too.

Since then, I've avoided buying pigeons (unless albinos) as all my display tanks had a black background. If they're not pigeon's, they won't pepper. If they are albinos, they won't pepper even if they are pigeons.

Don't get me wrong, there are some beautiful pigeons and I would love them, but I have the wrong tanks for them :(

[nc0gnet0]

Explain to me why these pigeon bloods that "pepper" due to a black background don't pepper when the lights are out and the tank is totally dark?

Just to clarify, is anyone that is claiming that these pigeon bloods strains that exhibit peppering due to a black background cannot be reversed if re-introduced into a tank with a lighter background?

[TankWatcher]

I only have the one pigeon blood and it hardly has any pepper at all, even though in a dark tank. He the same to me with lights on or off, although of course it is harder to see his detail when the lights are off.

As to your 2nd question, I have read that the peppering can be reversed by the method you suggest. This is from what I have read of others, not personal experience.

[Wahter]

Pepper on Pigeon bloods has been discussed a few times here. Here's a thread with some photos.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=66212

Bear in mind that many discus will darken up in a tank with a dark background and bottom substrate, however, with pigeons they end up showing pepper instead. This is all to blend in with their surroundings.

When the lights are out, the fish are asleep and even the usually darker non-pigeons will lighten up.




Walter

[nc0gnet0]

Interesting,

Had a good long look at that thread. I think people need to be carefull when they word things when talking about peppering and dark backgrounds. I still don't believe that dark backgrounds "cause" peppering, but, possibly they will bring it out. And dam, that was one dark tank!

[Wahter]

Even the non-pigeon blood discus in this tank are dark:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=79286



Walter

[TankWatcher]

nc0gnet0, the gene resulting in the tendency to pepper has to be in the discus already. A dark tank won't cause a non pigeon to pepper.

But if the gene & the tendency is there, then the discus may attempt to blend in better with it's surroundings. It is the discus natural attempt to blend in with dark surroundings that either "causes" or "possibily brings out" the tendency to pepper.

As Walter demonstrated in his link above, non pigeon bloods will tend to darken their body so as to blend in better with a dark environment. But darkening is different to peppering (visually) even though the discus does it for the same purpose.

[Eddie]

nc0gnet0, the gene resulting in the tendency to pepper has to be in the discus already. A dark tank won't cause a non pigeon to pepper.

But if the gene & the tendency is there, then the discus may attempt to blend in better with it's surroundings. It is the discus natural attempt to blend in with dark surroundings that either "causes" or "possibily brings out" the tendency to pepper.

As Walter demonstrated in his link above, non pigeon bloods will tend to darken their body so as to blend in better with a dark environment. But darkening is different to peppering.


+1

[Jhhnn]

It seems to me that the mutation creating pigeon bloods has to do with the way colors are blended or grayed on the fish. with normal discus, the darker pigments and the lighter, brighter ones are blended together in a fine-grained sort of way, whereas it's coarser on PB's. So the bright colors are purer with Pigeons, as are the dark ones, which we see as peppering... It's like our perception of the color of mixed fine grained sand vs the color of mixed coarse pebbles...

I probably didn't say that very well...

[waters10]

Think like this. Amount of pepper a discus has, is related to genetics. The amount of pepper a discus will show, is related to his environment. A genetically clean PB might be very clean in a dark background, but it would be even cleaner in a light background. And honestly, PB's today are so clean (specially from our sponsors!), that I honestly don't see peppering nowadays as an issue at all! I'm sure I only think like that cause I owned a PB more than 10 years ago that had 5x more pepper than PB's today! :D

Also, like others mentioned, dark background makes other discus go darker. And I personally think that's a much bigger issue, since it affects the whole discus body, while clean PB will only show their bit of pepper on their faces and fins, while their main color remain the same.

[nc0gnet0]

It's not that I don't understand, it's that I have issue with how some people present it. When someone states that a dark background can cause peppering, thats not the case at all. Where as it may indeed bring it out and make it more noticeable, the peppering was always there to begin with. And once re-introduced into a lighter background will disapear. Possibly it could even be used as a tool to recognize the cleanest discus for breeding purposes.

I have a marlboro red throwback that has some peppering, I find it attrative on that particular fish. Although I must admit on other strains not so much. I have a slate grey bottom with your typical aquarium blue (plexi) background and can't say I have noticed any additional peppering on my fish. But then again, I don't know if a light grey actually qualifies as "dark". Then again, I am running different lighting then most on here I would imagine as I have the new marineland LED lighting system with the moonlights. I must say I am quite impressed with it as it really makes the discus's color "pop", much more so than the flourescent/actinics.

[waters10]

It's not that I don't understand, it's that I have issue with how some people present it. When someone states that a dark background can cause peppering, thats not the case at all. Where as it may indeed bring it out and make it more noticeable, the peppering was always there to begin with. And once re-introduced into a lighter background will disapear. Possibly it could even be used as a tool to recognize the cleanest discus for breeding purposes.

I have a marlboro red throwback that has some peppering, I find it attrative on that particular fish. Although I must admit on other strains not so much. I have a slate grey bottom with your typical aquarium blue (plexi) background and can't say I have noticed any additional peppering on my fish. But then again, I don't know if a light grey actually qualifies as "dark". Then again, I am running different lighting then most on here I would imagine as I have the new marineland LED lighting system with the moonlights. I must say I am quite impressed with it as it really makes the discus's color "pop", much more so than the flourescent/actinics.
Yeah, semantics, I guess. Dark background will cause the discus to show the peppering. If a discus does not have genetically a lot of peppering (and by a lot, depends on who you talk to), it won't make a huge difference.

I don't think light grey qualifies as dark background. I had a huge stump of Malaysian wood in my tank that would occupy over 5g of water. When I removed it, it made a HUGE difference on all my fish, specially on blue diamonds and penang eruption. But the difference on my PB based fish was slim.