Do you overstock?

[MikeF]

Do you overstock your discus tanks? If so, how much?

I was looking at buying a 220 or larger, and would like to put most of my discus in this tank. I have about 35 discus at the current time. Most are young adults. I will have 2 fluval fx5 canister filters, and do a 50% water change every 2 days. What do you guys think?

[DarkSide]

Huge water change can be unwieldy, but 35 discus into 220 gallons no sweat if you follow-up with good maintenance.

[majik]

I have 35 in a 220g and do 50% w/c every 2nd day more in weekends but theres no problems at all my total tank turnover is 7x in an hour this has been going a year with young adults up to my old man patraich of 8yrs old all togeather..:D

[Tito]

Been keeping fish for quite some time.

I can tell you that my worst experiences come from an overstocked tank. Even if you have great filtration - you will eventually miss or purpose or not - you will miss on a water change on legthen the time in between and you will see the difference quickly.

All of my best tanks, saltwater, tangayikans, south American, malawi - all of my best tanks were stocked adequately.

[mmorris]

Been keeping fish for quite some time.

I can tell you that my worst experiences come from an overstocked tank. Even if you have great filtration - you will eventually miss or purpose or not - you will miss on a water change on legthen the time in between and you will see the difference quickly.

All of my best tanks, saltwater, tangayikans, south American, malawi - all of my best tanks were stocked adequately.

I'm with you. :)
Tanya, I think it best that you send me some of yours. :)

[DarkSide]

Tito, you can get killed if you leave your house to but we still do. There are things that are acceptable risks and while I agree if you do everything to a lighter stocking level it is better if there is a breakdown, doesn't mean some higher level is disastrous. More fun to have a few more, and 35 in a 220 is not that bad.......

[Jhhnn]

I'm with mmorris and Tito. Even though I've only recently returned to fish keeping, some things never change. We all slack off from time to time- just the way it is. Might want to go somewhere for a week's vacation, or even a 3 day weekend... Can't do it if you're chained to the oars of water changes...

Bad things can happen very quickly in heavily overstocked tanks... bad things, man...

A 220gal tank is only ~200gal of water, so 35 adult discus is really a large overstock... add 5 more to make it double-stocked...

Slight overstocks aren't nearly as fragile... 8 adults in 70gal of water isn't as big a deal, so forth and so on... Push it a little? OK, but you have to stay on top of it, vigilantly. Push it a lot, and you're flirtin' with disaster...

Just one guy's opinion...

[brewmaster15]

Do you overstock? yep...Guilty as charged....and there are times when I wished I hadn't...The tendency is there for anyone to fit as many fish into their collection as they can...some are better able to withstand the temptation...Unfortunately >>I am not one of them.:(

I think the question is rather open ended though... Filtration, age of fish, water parameters like pH, foods fed and amounts fed as well as number of feedings per day, Dissolved oxygen levels and of course water change regime all play a role in defining what level of fish should be okay for a specific tank...

I'm not one that subscribes to the 1 fish per 10 gal rule...theres alot of factors to consider IMO.

-al

[William Palumbo]

Hey Al...I think Discus keepers in general overstock...and breeders raising fry more so!. Like what was stated on here before about keeping up the big waterchanges daily. We have good intentions about doing them, but when something comes up(and it usually does), or you get sick and can't do them...that's when the trouble starts...Bill

[Jhhnn]

MikeF- What's the total gallonage of the tanks now holding your fish?

Might want to use that as a basis for comparison...

[brewmaster15]

Hey Al...I think Discus keepers in general overstock...and breeders raising fry more so!. Like what was stated on here before about keeping up the big waterchanges daily. We have good intentions about doing them, but when something comes up(and it usually does), or you get sick and can't do them...that's when the trouble starts...B Ain't that the truth Bill!!:)

A few years ago I got Lyme Disease real bad... Having my tanks as stocked as I do now was definetly a problem...unfortunately..I haven't mended my ways at all!;)

-al

[William Palumbo]

LOL...Same here...and getting more as we speak!...Bill

[RLorts]

I am guilty of overstocking fry tanks and have paid the price a couple times. As for adult discus, I give them lots of space. I thought 11 in a 125 gallon was overcrowded.

[Don Trinko]

I had 4 in 29's when they were smaller but when they get big it just doesn't look right with much more than 1 per 10g. I did not have any health problems with 4 in 29's but I was faithfull to my wc routine. Being retired helps.
At present I have 2 in a 29, 4 in a 38, 5 in a 55, and 7 in a 75. More than 7 5" and bigger fish in a 75 just looks crowded to me. I had 8 in the 75 but moved one to the 55. All IMO; Don T.

[DiscusKeeper403]

I agree with others. I normally follow the 1 Discus per 10 gallon rule. In my 90 gallon I should be able to squeeze 10 in there (especially with large daily water changes) but I think I'll be sticking to 7 or 8.

[Upper Canada]

Mike are you able to set up your big tank in such a way that the w/c can be automated? Sri Angel in New York has done this with his 220. I would add several sponge filters with a back up power supply to operate the air pump so that an outage does not have an immediate negative effect. A continuous drip is also an option, with that volume of water incomming water temperature would not be a concern. In general I am comming around to the belief that we are understocking.

Consider all advice and then just do what you want.

Bob

[Eddie]

Do I overstock....most definitely :D LOL

Eddie

[MikeF]

Hey Jhhnn,

I currently have 1 55 gallon that is being held as a QT for 2 new discus. I also have a 150 with about 18 semi-adults, and one 180 that has 18 adults in it. The reason that I asked about a 220 with that many adults is because my wife is now starting to get p*****. All I want to do is get more fish and more tanks set up all the time. She is upset about the water bills, and also the electric bills. It seems like this is an arguement every month. So what I wanted to do is get one large tank and try and cram everything into it. I actually pmed SriAngel last week about her post with her 220. Looks very cool, but I do not know if I have that much talent to do a set up like that. What I have tried to explain to the wife is that it will be no different having just one large tank, instead of a few, b/c the WCs will have to be more than they are now. Just trying to get everyones opinion, before I make this decision. I saw a 500 gallon on craigslist. I am trying to buy that at the current time, but know one is calling back. That should make the wife really happy!

[mmorris]

I made $1,000 on my last batch of fry. You should tell your wife that! Just don't tell her it cost me about $3,000 first! :D

[majik]

Trust me it wont work i had the same idea just put everything in the 220g but it left me with countless "spare tanks" you can only guess what happened to them :D yup they are all full of fish too:D

[Justice]

I am an OVERSTOCKER!

[MikeF]

For those of you that do overstock your tanks, how much do you overstock them by?

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

All of our tanks/systems are overstocked by almost everyone's standards. :)

-Ryan

[Peachtree Discus]

Do you overstock your discus tanks?

overstock? no way, absolutely not, never, :wasntme: ....ok, once

[Scribbles]

Overstock...of course...what other way is there.:D There's always room for one more. Of course I clean like crazy and have back-up in place if I should get sick.

Chris

[Jhhnn]

Hey Jhhnn,

I currently have 1 55 gallon that is being held as a QT for 2 new discus. I also have a 150 with about 18 semi-adults, and one 180 that has 18 adults in it. The reason that I asked about a 220 with that many adults is because my wife is now starting to get p*****. All I want to do is get more fish and more tanks set up all the time. She is upset about the water bills, and also the electric bills. It seems like this is an arguement every month. So what I wanted to do is get one large tank and try and cram everything into it. I actually pmed SriAngel last week about her post with her 220. Looks very cool, but I do not know if I have that much talent to do a set up like that. What I have tried to explain to the wife is that it will be no different having just one large tank, instead of a few, b/c the WCs will have to be more than they are now. Just trying to get everyones opinion, before I make this decision. I saw a 500 gallon on craigslist. I am trying to buy that at the current time, but know one is calling back. That should make the wife really happy!

Domestic harmony can be hard to come by sometimes...

A fair amount of savings can be realized by using insulation board on all but the top and front of aquariums, and also by insulating aging barrels, too...

Your profile doesn't say where you live, but if you heat water with electricity anywhere, it's expensive. Around here, we mostly heat water with natural gas, which is cheaper, and I figure it's cheaper to fill the aging vats with water that's already up to temp and just hold it there with electric heaters rather than bringing cold water up to temp with electricity, particularly in the winter, when the cold water is... really cold. The vats are heavily insulated, and I might be entirely wrong, as well...

Might want to look over the rest of the casa for ways to save on energy costs- programmable thermostats and so forth...

Maybe the discord isn't really about the money... dunno. At least it's not gambling or cocaine, either one of which can get really pricey really fast...

Fast-growing live plants can apparently reduce the need for water changes somewhat, but the electricity to run the lights makes it seem to me to be a losing proposition expense-wise, unless you live where electricity is really cheap and water expensive...

Looking at my own water bill and calculating the amount of water it takes for the fish, that's really a small part of the picture for me and my family...

My own spouse has been fairly supportive of my discus endeavors, and if either one of us had room to argue about spending, she'd lose... She may be starting to think I'm nuts, but I've proven that to be true, already, by sticking with her, anyway...

[Roxanne]

.I can tell you that my worst experiences come from an overstocked tank. Even if you have great filtration - you will eventually miss or purpose or not - you will miss on a water change on legthen the time in between and you will see the difference quickly.
.

Amen to that. If you don't overstock, you can miss a water change here and there without major issues...

Rox

[Apistomaster]

As a discus breeder, of course I over stock. Is there any breeder who does not?
Breeders have to do a great deal of extra work to compensate for their over stocking.

However, when it comes to my wild fish, I tend to allow them twice the recommended 10 gal per fish and use more like 20 gal per fish.

Domestics discus in pairing off tanks or permanent displays I stick with the 10 gal per fish or 144 sq inches of surface area per fish, which ever is greater. This general rule makes for a good balance of their needs and the amount of water changes that must be done. At this stocking level I change about 2/3 of their water twice a week.

[lpiasente]

I have 10 in a 450 litre bb 6 adults 3 tennagers 9-12 months and a stunted. I change 190 litres 3 times a week. I was thinkng I need to take one or 2 out but they all look so good together I can't decide which ones to remove.:confused: So do I really need to take any out ........................???

P.s I have 2x 2217 and an internal box filter filled with wool

[Apistomaster]

I have 10 in a 450 litre bb 6 adults 3 tennagers 9-12 months and a stunted. I change 190 litres 3 times a week. I was thinkng I need to take one or 2 out but they all look so good together I can't decide which ones to remove.:confused: So do I really need to take any out ........................???

P.s I have 2x 2217 and an internal box filter filled with wool

To me, it sounds like you are within recommended stocking levels including the younger fish once they become full grown. The recommendations are general yard sticks and not iron clad but a quick mental calc of your tank and I converted it to nearly 115 to 120 gal so you seem to be within the general guidelines. I just would not add Discus more unless you want to do so much work changing water that you stop having fun.

[Discus-Hans]

Do I over stock, hmmmmm here and there but only in my tanks lol

Hans

[Eddie]

Do I over stock, hmmmmm here and there but only in my tanks lol

Hans

Come on Hans....give'em the picture! :D

Eddie

[Eddie]

Okay okay, I will give it to them.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=57579

These are some full tanks and nice fish! :D

Eddie

[Scribbles]

Still room for a few more. Eddie, do you know which thread has the picture where the discus are so packed that you can't even see the water? It was about a month or so ago.

Chris

[Discus-Hans]

You mean this one???

Is not at my fish house,

Hans

[Scribbles]

Found it. The thread is called Overstocked? and its post #18.

Chris

[Scribbles]

Thank you Hans. That's the one.

Chris

[Eddie]

You mean this one???

Is not at my fish house,

Hans

That is the one Hans, I thought that was your house. :o

Either way, you stock'em good and the fish look GREAT!

Take care,

Eddie

[lpiasente]

That's great I don't have to take any out. Talking about overstocking I went to a place here in Vic that sells discus only. The owner took me inside and showed me his own display tank 22 adult discus in a 4x2x2. He changes 30% once a week. I nearly died. They all looked colorful and beautiful but I must say they were not moving at all. Bit like a stuffed train at peak hour, Poor discus

[mmorris]

It worries me when people with years of experience post with glee of their overstocking experiences. Those with less experience think they can do the same. Be smart, all. The 10 gal./discus `rule of thumb' isn't just an ugly rumour. It's there as a guideline to help keep people out of the disease section.

[Jhhnn]

It worries me when people with years of experience post with glee of their overstocking experiences. Those with less experience think they can do the same. Be smart, all. The 10 gal./discus `rule of thumb' isn't just an ugly rumour. It's there as a guideline to help keep people out of the disease section.

Amen.

[Discus-Hans]

It worries me when people with years of experience post with glee of their overstocking experiences. Those with less experience think they can do the same. Be smart, all. The 10 gal./discus `rule of thumb' isn't just an ugly rumour. It's there as a guideline to help keep people out of the disease section.

Martha,

people have to see and understand who is posting this, same as I tell the people every time, we have big filter systems and we do about 30% water changes AT LEAST every other day etc etc I could put under every post:

"This is how we do it, don't try this at home""

People have to make choices in advise, options, etc. etc. people offer them, same as people have the choice to take advice from people who manage to keep Discus for 3 months alive or people who breed 2 batches of fry and think they have a PhD in Discus breeding.....

You've to make choices in everything offered on the forum, some things are right for your tank/Discus some are not,

Hans

[MikeF]

After reading all of the posts, I have decided to forego getting the bigger tank, and just continue having the wife stay mad at me. From reading everything, it would not be a good idea combining everything into one tank. I hope in the future that she will get over it, and let my obsession with discus go. She can not control it, and either can I!!

[lpiasente]

This is how my husband looks at it.

I don't smoke $13.00 per packet
I don't drink (too much) $50 plus per week
I don' t have a huge fashion addiction with shoes clothes handbags (well maybe handbags)
Hey it could be diamonds or pokies I am addicted to

The list could go on :D

[kaceyo]

This is how my husband looks at it.

I don't smoke $13.00 per packet
I don't drink (too much) $50 plus per week
I don' t have a huge fashion addiction with shoes clothes handbags (well maybe handbags)
Hey it could be diamonds or pokies I am addicted to

The list could go on :D

OK, I'll bite! Pokies?

Kacey

[Eddie]

I think it's online gambling Kacey......:o

Eddie

[bs6749]

OK, I'll bite! Pokies?

Kacey

I think she means Pokemon....GOTTA CATCH EM ALL! LOL.

[Ed13]

I think Al would ban me if I write what came to my mind when I read "pokies"...:o...so I'll wait for an explanation;)

BTW, I don't overstock in relation to 1 adult discus per 10g

[bs6749]

I really thought that it meant tattoos at first but I think Eddie is right.

[Vieira]

Im a big card player online and off and Ive never head of pokies.

[Jhhnn]

Martha,

people have to see and understand who is posting this, same as I tell the people every time, we have big filter systems and we do about 30% water changes AT LEAST every other day etc etc I could put under every post:

"This is how we do it, don't try this at home""

People have to make choices in advise, options, etc. etc. people offer them, same as people have the choice to take advice from people who manage to keep Discus for 3 months alive or people who breed 2 batches of fry and think they have a PhD in Discus breeding.....

You've to make choices in everything offered on the forum, some things are right for your tank/Discus some are not,

Hans

You're right, of course, but it doesn't take a genius or a whole lot of experience to recognize good, solid, conservative advice when it's offered, or to advocate others doing the same...

[Discus-Hans]

Let's go back to the question: Do you overstock??

My answer is YES we do.

Can people with lesser experience do the same??? Yes, if I can do it, everybody can do it!!!!!

Do you need to do extra water changes, off course!!!!!!!!!!!! We work 7 days a week and a part of the work is water changes.

If you get sick/go away for 3 days/take a vacation for a week, you're in trouble, heck YES, but than you've to take care somebody else does your water changes (even if you've 5 Discus in a 220 gallon)

Hans

[lpiasente]

Im a big card player online and off and Ive never head of pokies.

Poker machines:)

[tcup]

hello. my name is tiana and i am a potential overstocker :laugh: why does this thread make me think of an aa meeting? :laugh:

[jerbear]

hello. my name is tiana and i am a potential overstocker :laugh: why does this thread make me think of an aa meeting? :laugh:

Tiana,
That is to funny..:):):)

Lets start the meeting with the reading of the 1st step..

I am powerless over Discus and my life has become unmanageable..:):)

[mmorris]

Let's go back to the question: Do you overstock??

My answer is YES we do.

Can people with lesser experience do the same??? Yes, if I can do it, everybody can do it!!!!!



Then why do we call it "overstock?" If we stock to the point where we can never miss a wc then we are not making wise stocking decisions.

[mmorris]

If you get sick/go away for 3 days/take a vacation for a week, you're in trouble, heck YES, but than you've to take care somebody else does your water changes (even if you've 5 Discus in a 220 gallon)

Hans

I'm thinkin' 5 discus in a 220 gallon will be fine for a week without wc's. ;) I'm thinkin' 10 gal. per discus and we're still ok for the week.

[poconogal]

Over the years I've read a lot of BS on forums, some things really stupid.

But Martha, IMO what you've said is right on the money, spot on. How many of us go away for a week or more on vacation and either feed very lightly with an autofeeder or no feeding at all and no WCs are being done. Large WC before leaving, couple large WCs after returning, all's good.

Of course, this works well without a jam packed, overstocked tank, another good reason for hobbyists to follow the 10 gal. per Discus rule or at least follow it somewhat closely.

[Scribbles]

We are all guilty of overstocking. Nowhere in nature are fish stocked 1 per 10 gallons exept for water sources drying up in a drought. So it comes down to how much can we overstock and maintain healthy fish that we enjoy and not resent the work involved. It all depends on individual circumstanses. Some of us enjoy the work involved in daily wc and watching our juvies grow. Others might have tight schedules and little spare time so fewer adult discus in a large tank would be a better stocking level requiring less cleaning time. Discus are no different from any other pet as far as planing for their care if you get sick or go on vacation. You wouldn't leave your dog for a week or two. If you vacation figure out BEFORE you set up your tank how you will manage it. Personaly I have talked with my family regarding all of my pets in the event of illness, hospitalization, vacation or even death. It's all part of being a responsible owner.

Chris

[mmorris]

We are all guilty of overstocking. Chris

Nope. :)

[Ed13]

We are all guilty of overstocking. Nowhere in nature are fish stocked 1 per 10 gallons exept for water sources drying up in a drought.
Chris
Actually, there are vastly populated areas in bodies of water that would resemble heavily overstocked tanks, they are just getting an immense WC every second;).
Such an immense volume of water flowing through, that numbers are irrelevant.

[Eddie]

Aww Jeez, the OP asked if we overstock and by how much, period. Then he wanted suggestions on his set-up, not an education lesson on the pitfalls of overstocking. If there are those less or more experienced individuals that overstock, it is their prerogative.

Take care everyone and stock'em like you like them!
Eddie

[tcup]

haha. good one jerry.:)

[trebor69]

Martha,

people have to see and understand who is posting this, same as I tell the people every time, we have big filter systems and we do about 30% water changes AT LEAST every other day etc etc I could put under every post:

"This is how we do it, don't try this at home""

People have to make choices in advise, options, etc. etc. people offer them, same as people have the choice to take advice from people who manage to keep Discus for 3 months alive or people who breed 2 batches of fry and think they have a PhD in Discus breeding.....

You've to make choices in everything offered on the forum, some things are right for your tank/Discus some are not,

Hans

haha the bolded/underlined part being most imortant!

Hans you obviously do what you do with great success.
To many it is obvious that your situation is not the norm but to some it is not.

If you can do it....anyone can do it. Hmmm well that may be true but what separates you from the average hobbyist on here is your work ethic and the amount of time, money and effort you are willing to put in to do things the way you do hehe.

many of you have seen the inside of Hans' place. How many have seen the property out back of the fish house? Thats where he keeps his BH supply.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3265/3239157183_91c5fbc582.jpg

Hans you da man.....see you bright and early Saturday morning August 1st hahaha


MikeF .... I guess what you can take away from this is that yes most people do overstock a little. It can be done a little or taken to extremes like Hans' situation but with each xtra fish added you increase your workload to maintain a healthy tank.

[Don Trinko]

There are many variables involved. One of them is knowledge. I can say with absolute certainty that Hans knows more abought raisng discus than I do. Don T.

[Mrylln]

haha the bolded/underlined part being most imortant!

... I guess what you can take away from this is that yes most people do overstock a little. It can be done a little or taken to extremes like Hans' situation but with each xtra fish added you increase your workload to maintain a healthy tank.

How the tanks are stocked depends on all of the above. If you have a central system with highly efficient filtration, you can pack the fish tightly and have no issues. This is the ideal in commercial set-ups. I've seen it done this way many times, and it's almost alarming to see...except that the fish are absolutely stunning. If it doesn't harm the fish, there's no problem. If the fish are packed like sardines, and they're falling apart---then there's a problem! One thing for keeping them in crowded conditions in commercial establishments---they don't bicker as much, and less bickering leads to fewer injuries, and fewer injuries results in healthier fish overall.

Personally, I keep my fish in more water than they absolutely need, in tanks with at least some floating plants, if not in heavily planted tanks. I don't feed beefheart because I don't want to change water often enough to offset the bacteria produced. Discus are amazing and highly resilient animals, but they do like clean water at least.

There are many paths to enjoying discus. Some people are adept at keeping them well so they can pass them on for the pleasure of hobbyists and others just enjoy the fish for its behavior and the pleasure of watching it grow and develop full color and size. And then, there are all the schemes in between. :balloon: