Discus size and age

[Dutch dude]

Hi,

I have a question regarding size and age of Discus. At April 29th this year I bought 8 discus of a German breeder. The lfs received the fish at the size of 2 inch by the end of January. In the 2 months period in the lfs they grown from 2 inch to 3 inch. Not to bad on only 2 feeds a day and 2 times 50% water changes a week. I was able to get them for a nice price and took them home. After 7 weeks I selected the best 6 and returned 2 to the lfs.

From what I have read abouth growth of fry,... a discus will grow from fry to 2 inch in abouth 2 months. The lfs received them by the end of January from the breeder so they should be around one year of age. They all seem to be healthy and relatively good shaped although one is behind in development but he/she is on the bottom of the picking order and has a poor appetite for some reason.

I notised the development of the normal coloration and paterns is very slowely (red turquoise) and they are still changing in colors and paterns. Lately they quarel a bit more but still don't show behaviour that could point at spawning.

Right now their size is 5 to 5 1/2 inch Total Length. How is their size compared to their age? What would be the normal expectation of growth in the next 6 months when they mature and start to beef up? At what age can I expect the fish to have developed all the paterns and colors? What is the opinion of the experts on this board abouth the development of the fish?

Here some pics.

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/9408/dsc01710qt9.jpg

http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/2316/dsc01700ob8.jpg

Some additional background info:
75 gallon tank, internal filter with 5 gallon on sponge media and 525 GPH pump, sand substrate (1/2 inch), some plants. Right now 2 times a week 75% water change and inbetween every day 15% for cleaning substrate. I feed 3 times a day frozen (or live) blood worms, artemis and 2 small feeds of discus granules and as snack several times a week live (daphnia, artemis, bloodworms). Temp at 28C, PH=7.5, GH=8 nitrate stable at 12 mg/liter. (a bit high but my tapwater already contains 10 mg/liter).

TIA

Ruurd

[Dutch dude]

No response?:(

[Don Trinko]

IMO;They are what I consider the normal range of growth for that age. Genetics, food and water quality all effect growth.
Many do feed 4 to 6 times a day. This will effect growth but... the water quality is also neccisary.
You will get a lot of different answers if you ask abought WC (water change) Some do 80 to 90% a day for young discus. Some only change 25% a month. For better or worse what I do is change enough water to keep the nitrates near 5. This has varied with the size and age or my discus. At present for what I consider a standard bioload of 1 discus per 10g of water I change 50% twice a week.
I am no expert ; many do more wc than I do and a few do less. Don T.

[Dutch dude]

Hi Don,

Thanks for your response and I realy appreciated! So you think they are in a normal growth rate? Thats good to hear! This is the first time I keep Discus. I was a bit afraid that the 2 months in the lfs with a poor water changing regime and not enough feedings coused a set back in growth. As far as my knowledge grows discus have the highest growth rate between the 1 and 4 inch and an important part of that grow period the fish spend in the lfs.

When I received the fish I did 70% daily water change and abouth 7 to 8 feeds. When the fish slowed down in growth around the 4 inch I reduced the wc's to 50% daily and 6 to 7 feeds. Slowly the growth reduces and the appetite also reduces and right now I do 2 large wc's of 75% a week and every day small wc's of 15% to get ride of the poop on the substrate. Until the 2 months ago I feed heavily on Stendker beefheart blend and additional bloodworms and artemis for desert. Abouth 2 months ago I slowely started to reduce the beefheart and feed more bloodworms and introduced more discus granuls to the curent 5 feedings of witch 2 small feeds of tetra discus, 2 frozen bloodworms and 1 artemis. Several times a week I feed live foods like bloodworms, artemis and daphnia. So I think it is not in the feeding or in the water qualety but possibly they would have grown larger if they wouldn't had spend 2 months in the lfs. Some of the siblings are still in the lfs and grown to only 4 inch max and are definitely stunted and in poor shape.

So are there more people who think my fish are a normal size of their age or do you have diferent opinions? What are your experiences with growth at the age of 1 year to 1 1/2 year?

[Amazonbeauties]

Really nice discus:D appear to be the right growth rate the eyes are the right size in proportion to the size of the discus .

[Moon]

For their age the growth appears to be appropriate. Good shape and eye size is propotional to the body. Nice collection.

[kaceyo]

Definitly a nice looking, well cared for group. They should continue to grow, though much more slowly, until they are 1.5 to 2 years old.

Kacey

[Dutch dude]

Thanks so much for all the nice comments and confirmation that they are indeed at a normal size for their age. I'm a happy guy right now :)

The last 6 weeks or so they hardly have grown and probably they are at one of their growth plateau's. I did noticed some changes in the body shape over that period. This week they seem to have more appetite so this might be a first sign of a new grow spurt. They don't have to outgrow my tank but it would be nice if they reached the 5 1/2 to 6 inch SL,.....future will tell. Good to hear from you guy's that they are on track and have a normal growth pattern so far.

[Eddie]

Those are some beautiful Discus. I love the colors and their shape is very good. I'll bet the fish on the top left in the first pic is a male. Super nice

Eddie

[Patr1ck]

My discus are @ a year old and they are @ 5" too.


I'll bet the fish on the top left in the first pic is a male. Super nice

How do you tell the difference between male and female? Is it the more rounded forehead?


Thanks,
P

[Eddie]

Just a guess :)

[Dutch dude]

OV10Pat,...so yours are roughly the same size. Feel free to post a pic of them in this post. I think it would be interesting to compare development (body shape and development of fins, eye size).

So far a lot of confirmations they are on a normal growth track and thats very good to hear. To be honest the 2 months the fish spend in the lfs made me doubt if they would reach a normal size. So I did my very best to accomplish that by providing right foods, plenty of them (sometimes to much causing planaria) and clean water. I guess it worked.

Basshead,....thanks for your nice comment! The fish are from a large famous German breeder. The color type are obviously red turquase and 2 of the fish might be red scribbled. If you take the first pics the one in the left below corner and the one at the right abouve corner seem to have stronger and darker red, a bit of a greenish body color. They are also the smallest fish. The fish in the left abouve corner is most likely a male indeed and he is the most beautiful of them and a bit ahead in development. He is 5 1/2 inch and does have lots of blue striations and nice bright red in the fins. Probably you noticed all the small red dots in the fish on the second pic. Except for the 2 likely red scribbled the remaining 4 fish have the red dots. I do have some suspicions that there is RSG blood down the line. Good to hear you like the colors. You suspect the fish in the left abouve corner to be a male but I think most of them are male. When I look at the vents they seem all small and pointed. There is one fish I have some doubts abouth and might be a female. At what size gender becomes more clear? Can I look at the vents or is the diference very small just like with Guianacara for example?

[Patr1ck]

Heres a pic of one of mine. Sorry the pic is so bad. It doesnt do him any justice. http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=67298


P

[Dutch dude]

OV10PAT,....the pic is indeed a bit small and dark but I can see through that. It's a nice looking fish :) Are you sure abouth the age? Somehow it looks younger as my fish and it reminds me of how mine looked a couple of months ago. I think your discus does have some nice paterns and does have nice large fins. Thanks for sharing.

Ruurd

[Patr1ck]

OV10PAT,....the pic is indeed a bit small and dark but I can see through that. It's a nice looking fish :) Are you sure abouth the age? Somehow it looks younger as my fish and it reminds me of how mine looked a couple of months ago. I think your discus does have some nice paterns and does have nice large fins. Thanks for sharing.

Ruurd

Pretty sure about the age. He was almost 3" when I recieved him early last spring @9 months ago. Thanks for the compliment.:)

P

[above design]

OV10Pat,...so yours are roughly the same size. Feel free to post a pic of them in this post. I think it would be interesting to compare development (body shape and development of fins, eye size).

So far a lot of confirmations they are on a normal growth track and thats very good to hear. To be honest the 2 months the fish spend in the lfs made me doubt if they would reach a normal size. So I did my very best to accomplish that by providing right foods, plenty of them (sometimes to much causing planaria) and clean water. I guess it worked.

Basshead,....thanks for your nice comment! The fish are from a large famous German breeder. The color type are obviously red turquase and 2 of the fish might be red scribbled. If you take the first pics the one in the left below corner and the one at the right abouve corner seem to have stronger and darker red, a bit of a greenish body color. They are also the smallest fish. The fish in the left abouve corner is most likely a male indeed and he is the most beautiful of them and a bit ahead in development. He is 5 1/2 inch and does have lots of blue striations and nice bright red in the fins. Probably you noticed all the small red dots in the fish on the second pic. Except for the 2 likely red scribbled the remaining 4 fish have the red dots. I do have some suspicions that there is RSG blood down the line. Good to hear you like the colors. You suspect the fish in the left abouve corner to be a male but I think most of them are male. When I look at the vents they seem all small and pointed. There is one fish I have some doubts abouth and might be a female. At what size gender becomes more clear? Can I look at the vents or is the diference very small just like with Guianacara for example?


Hi Ruurd,

I can tell you that I have 10 Discus that are all in the 7-9 month range. About a month or so ago my wife and I tried to sex them and made a guess of what we thought they were. In the last month I have had three lay eggs. Out of those three we had 1 right on the list. In addition, two others that we had on the list as females we now suspect are males! I am no expert and I am sure that many can look at a Discus's breeding tube before they are extended and tell male/female. If you are one that can then congrats but if not then its all a guessing game :)

- Mark

[Triadtropz]

nice fish..they look about a year old?..

[Dutch dude]

OV10PAT,....then your fish must be indeed around a year and at the same age as mine. The pic is a bit small so not that easy to compare. Most important is that you have a nice fish there :thumb:

Mark,....thanks for the information. I get the message,.....same with young Guianacara. Breeders have seen a lot of fish defelop and often have a trained eye on recognition of the gender based on body shape, behaviour and the vent. So I guess I will only know if I have males and females when they start spawning. So far they don't show much interest in each other but slowely they start to quarel more,....especially abouth the last foods and some favorite spots in the tank. Thanks for the info!

Triadtropz,...thanks for the nice comment and they are indeed around 1 year of age.

[Dutch dude]

Yesterday I received an e-mail from Discus Hans with this info.

The average growth of Stendker Discus:

2 - 2 1/2" = 3 months of age
3 - 3 1/2" = 4 1/2 months of age
4" = 6 months of age
5" = 9 months of age
6" = 18 months of age
7"+ = 2 years of age

Thank you very much Hans for the info and this is what I was looking for. :thumbsup: