Continuing the Cycle

[saroberts]

I've had my 65g tank setup with sponge filters for nearly 5 weeks.

After three weeks, my levels had not changed. Ammonia was 1, nitrites were 0 and nitrates 0.

Two weeks ago today, I added Bio Spira.

One week ago today, Ammonia was 0, nitrites were between 1 and 2, and nitrates were 5.

Tonight, Ammonia is still 0, nitrites are less than .25 (blue shade with purple tinge), and nitrates were between 10 and 20.

I hoping I can say the cycle is almost complete.

I'm probably 2 to 4 weeks away from getting my Discus. I had originnally planned on doing it this weekend, but after 3 weeks decided the cycle would not be completed in time and now have a planned family activity.

My worry now is, what to do to keep the cycle going. I've found Ammonia at Ace hardware. The bottle says 10% Ammonium hydroxide. Is this what I should use? If I feed from the Ammonia bottle, what ppm should I shoot for?

I think my other option is to do water changes ever other day and 'feed' the bio filter using the detoxed ammonia from my aged water barrel. I've been using prime on the water and it tests out between .5 and 1.

Which (if either) is better? Do I have another option?

[Ardan]

Hi,
I would use the ammonia. I assume you were doing a fishless cycle and adding ammonia? Or how were you doing this cycling? If you were adding a capful of ammonia per day or evey 2nd day, I would continue to do the same thing until the fish are ready to arrive, then do a 90% wc the day before fish get there and add the fish.

The readings on the wc water may be false readings given off by the prime.

hth
Ardan

[saroberts]

Thanks Ardan,

I'm doing a fishless cycle startup, and just waiting for it to complete.

I'll start adding a capfull the ammonia every day or two until I get my fish.

Steve

[brewmaster15]

Hi Steve,
when you first did the fishless cycle what was your source for ammonia.. I get the impression that you only just started using one?


My worry now is, what to do to keep the cycle going. I've found Ammonia at Ace hardware. The bottle says 10% Ammonium hydroxide. Is this what I should use? If I feed from the Ammonia bottle, what ppm should I shoot for?


If you didn't use any ammonia those five weeks as food for your biofilter...Odds are your tank is no wheres near cycled...


I've had my 65g tank setup with sponge filters for nearly 5 weeks.

After three weeks, my levels had not changed. Ammonia was 1, nitrites were 0 and nitrates 0.

Two weeks ago today, I added Bio Spira.

One week ago today, Ammonia was 0, nitrites were between 1 and 2, and nitrates were 5.

Tonight, Ammonia is still 0, nitrites are less than .25 (blue shade with purple tinge), and nitrates were between 10 and 20.

I hoping I can say the cycle is almost complete.


You should see a massive amount of ammonia ( added as food) it diminishes and as it does you see a nitrite spike... then as bacteria consumes that...It diminishes and you start accumulating Nitrates in the tank.

How much ammonia have you been adding ?

-al

[Alight]

I agree with Al (brewmaster). I add 5 drops of clear ammonia (I think that's what you have) for each juvi to adult Discus I plan to add to a tank each day. When the biofilter uses up all this ammonia in one day (measure ammonia levels just before you add the ammonia each day), and nitrites are also at zero, do a 100% water change and add your Discus. Do not wait more than 24 hours after doing the 100% water change to add the Discus.

If you nitrates got to more than your test kit will read, or nitrites go off scale, do a 60-70% water change and keep adding ammonia each day.

Too much nitrate or nitrite can actually slow down the cycling, as can ammonia readings higher than 8 ppm.

[saroberts]

I added 2 ml of my ammonia last night. I waited 30 minutes and tested the water. Ammonia was at 2.0, nitrites less than .25 and nitrates around 5.

I tested this morning and Ammonia was lower, but still close to 2, nitrites were between .5 and 1, and nitrates were a darker yellow, but not orange.

I'll test again tonight and let you know.

Thanks for the help.

Steve

[Alight]

Sounds like you have some bacteria established. Now it's just a matter of beafing them up to handle the fish you want to add.

Keep in mind that the ammonia nitrifying bacteria are slow growing, for bacteria. The will only double their number in 24 hours and then only if conditions are optimal. This means it may take a week to get the bacteria colony you'll need.

You're on the right track, though.

I wouldn't add more ammonia, now, until you get a zero, or close to zero reading. Then add 2 mls again, and see how long it takes for that to go to zero. I can't remember how many fish you wanted to add, but to be safe, eventually you should add 5 drops of ammonia per 2-3 inch Juvie or adult Discus you want to add to your tank, each day. This should go to zero in 24 hours. Once this happens a couple of days in a row, your ready for the 100% water change and adding the fish.

[brewmaster15]

Al,
2 weeks ago, steve added Bio spira... The ammonia readings may not reflect bacteria established on sponges and biofilter surfaces, but circulating bio-spira?



Steve,
can you tell me how much ammonia you were adding, if any, the first 5 weeks ?

hth,
-al

[Alight]

My experience with biospira is that the bacteria from that source quickly settles on surfaces, just like the native nitrifying bacteria. The only difference is that it settles everywhere, including tank sides and gravel, etc, which is usually only a relatively poor site for it to grow in normal tanks.

This means that you should not wipe down your tank sides, or clean your gravel thoroughly for a few weeks if you are relying on biospira to colonize your biofilter. After that time, there is enough bacteria in reserve in the filter to make up for what is lost by wiping down the sides and cleaning gravel.

I would not be too concerned about changing tank water, except that it will reduce the amount of ammonia and nitrites that you want to have now, to help beef up the biofilter. I'd only change water if the ammonia or nitrite levels are very high.

[brewmaster15]

I haven't used it Al, so I would not know.. but it sounds like the tank had it added two weeks ago and no ammonia was in the tank for it to feed on until the other day. If that was the case, I'm not sure that there would be much of anything colonized.

Jmo,
al

[saroberts]

It's a bare bottom 65g tank. With two of the large sponge filters.

I did not add any ammonia, although I had been raising and lowering the water in the tank and adding back primed tap water. I was resilconing my bulkhead , adjusting my overflow and getting the heaters set at 86. I did it three times, but only added about 5 gallons each time. This would have been in week 2.

Tonights readings were ammonia close to 2, nitrites between .5 and 1, and nitrates between 10 and 20. It was a good strong orange, but not an orange/red color.

I also have noticed a lot of white dots on the bottom of the tank, and the black wires for the heaters.

From your comments and what I'm seeing, I would say the biofilter is still in the process of forming, and I have a few weeks to wait yet.

Steve

[saroberts]

This mornings readings are: ammonia .5 nitrites 2.0, nitrates 20

Also could the white power, be related to the discussion on this thread:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=55923

It was an interesting discussion, and I wonder if it is what I'm seeing.

Steve

[brewmaster15]

Its very possible Steve,
You can tell by sliding your hand over the tubes and filter intakes and see if they are slimy or if theres junk that comes off when you do.

hth,
al

[Alight]

You're progressing pretty much as I thought. I really think you'll be done cycling in about 5 days, now.

Now, I'd actually do a 50% water change, and then add the 5 drops of ammonia for each fish you're planning to add, and again, watch the ammonia and nitrite levels. I'll bet they go down twice as fast.

The reason for the water change is that, if you don't do it, your nitrite levels are going to get a bit high, as are your nitrate levels before the next batch of ammonia gets eaten up completely. While high levels are good, too high is not good and can slow things down.

Al(brewmaster), I believe that he had enough ammonium from the breakdown of the chloramines to keep the biospira bacteria alive, but not enough to have it multiply very much.

He's seeing that bacteria rejuvenated with the addition of the ammonia, and now he just has to expand them to meet the needs of the fish he's adding.

Again, the bacteria numbers double every 24 hours, which, as you know is slow for bacteria, but will seem fast as he already has a fair colony from the biospira addition.

Had he added ammonia with the biospira, he would likely had a cycled tank by now. (At least that has worked very well for me, cycling a sterile tank in less than a week).

[saroberts]

Just tested again.

Ammonia is almost 0. Nitrites are at least 5, maybe higher. Nitrates are still about 20.

I'll do a water change in a couple hours after dinner tonight.

Thanks again
Steve

[saroberts]

Performed Water Change. Replaced about 40 gallon.

After change

Ammonia was .5, Nitrite was 2 and Nitrates were around 10.

Added 3 ML of ammonia. By my counting 15 drops were 1 ML.

[Alight]

OK, now check the levels tonight, and tonight, if the ammonia level is below 1, add the same amount of ammonia you added last night (3 mls). If it's not below 1, wait til tommorrow night to add the ammonia.

Then repeat. If the nitrites get above 6 again, or nitrates get above 40 ppm, do the water change again and repeat.

Once the ammonia and nitrites both go to zero in 24 hours, your tank is ready for the fish.

Of course, you need to do a 100% water change to get rid of all the nitrates before you add the fish.