More Worried About Oxygen Than Heat???

[Kindredspirit]

I so need to understand something and so all experts, scientists, basically anyone other than myself(lol)please explain~http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_4_103.gif


When our power went out this morning, and the temps in the tanks all dropped to low 70's...


It seemed that most were concerned with having no air bubbles or the fact the tanks had not enough oxygen, rather than the fact the temps were dropping and I am confused! I am not saying that people were wrong as I totally trust and believed , but sooooooooo, the fact that all the airstones were not working to provided extra air, is more important then the water getting cold? Why is that?

I also wanted to know...I know some people who do not even have airstones in their tanks....so they do not get any added oxygen?

It is amazing when something like this happens all the questions one can have! I did something pretty lame, as I am sure you will all think, "omg, Marie..." When we were sitting watching the temps drop, I was thinking at that moment that the airstones are not working and they will not have any oxygen, so I opened the tank's lid on the 55gal to let in more air!! Go ahead....say it! Jack thought it ...when I told him , but bless his heart, he was so sweet and said that the room air wasnt going to help, instead of 'you idiot!" I closed it anyways, cuz all this extra heat escaped...But to my defense I could have sworn I have read posts that people leave a couple of inches free of water at the top of the tank so to provide added oxygen? Or No? Im guessin, prolly not...lol!


So, oxygen is more important than pretty much anything? And what is the scientific formula for oxygen? Like water is H2o?


And why do we add extra air into the tank when we medicate?


Thanks Guys~


Marie~

[White Worm]

Hi Marie, the space left at the top of the tank is for extra travel distance for the return water coming from your HOB filter. Agitation of the surface water is what provides oxygen. When the water splashes in, that offgases any co2 which creates oxygen, thats my take on what has been described to me. When your bubbles from sponge filters hit the surface, it does the same thing. I wouldnt worry so much about the temp going low for a short period of time, if you have ever had discus shipped to you, you would understand. They show up at your door and sometimes in some chilly water depending on how well the delivery service takes care of them. DHL showed up at my door with the box under his arm and not even with the this side up facing the right way. He hands it to me like it is a box of rocks. I ask him,,,hey dude,,did you know their is live fish in that box you are throwing around? He says,,, oh sorry dude.They will just be kinda hibernating for a little bit. Slowly bring temp back to normal and they should be fine. Feed them their favorite treat after you see them actively moving around again!

[White Worm]

My power went out also during the storms, only for a few hours though and everyone was fine. No hot water? Hot water doesnt run off electricity. How do you get your hot water? Runs off gas and fire. At least mine does.

[Ryan]

I've had power go out for short periods of time (up to a few hours) and I've not changed anything. No battery-operated pumps, no heaters, nothing. I just leave the lights off and they sleep. Another thing to remember is that the cooler your water, the more oxygen it can hold (and conversely, the warmer the water, the less oxygen it holds). Also, your tank stocking density comes into play. If you have 10 discus in a 55 gallon vs. 5 discus in a 55 gallon, the amount of oxygen being taken in by the fish is drastically different. I would think an understocked (or fairly lightly stocked) tank would be okay for a little while without aeration.

Long power outages are a different story.

Interesting note... last year, when Florida was hit by three hurricanes, I had a 55 gallon set up in my house with some wild-caught fish. I had a few angels, some keyhole cichlids, a couple flag cichlids, a few pairs of rams, a couple tetras, and one lone gold gourami.

I had to leave my house when the first hurricane hit. I stayed with my parents. The power went out that night and remained out for 6 days. During that time, I could not make it back to my house because I lived in the woods and trees were down in the driveway all the way to the house (which sat more than half a mile off of a paved road). I still hadn't been back to the house after a couple weeks because of the road blockage, and the second hurricane hit. Then I was sent to Miami to work for 3 weeks, and the night after I came home the third hurricane hit.

In total, my house had no power for a month. After the first hurricane, the owner of the house that I was renting went down and shut the main power breaker off. She left it off the entire time I was gone. When I finally managed to make it home, I knew it was going to stink like dead fish in the house.

Out of 14 fish, 11 were still alive and swimming. I lost a tetra and two rams, I'm assuming they became food. But for over four weeks, everyone survived with no filtration or aeration. Of course, it was Florida, so the tanks stayed warm, but it was still amazing to me.

Ryan

[Discusgeo2]

It looks like everyone else explained the oxygen and why you need the top open to allow for the gas exchange.


During that time, I could not make it back to my house because I lived in the woods and trees were down in the driveway all the way to the house (which sat more than half a mile off of a paved road). I still hadn't been back to the house after a couple weeks because of the road blockage, and the second hurricane hit.

Now Ryan needs to go out and buy a Chain Saw so he can get home next time in a more timely fashion :D A young guy like you can cut trees all day and then have firewood to keep the house warm :D

[White Worm]

Wow Ryan, I think that most fish have a strong instict for survival. Discus are very particular fish but I think we do baby them just a little. They would probably do fine in conditions that are against the norm. I have heard of stories about few WC's and algae and dirty looking tanks but thriving and breeding. I think as long as those fish you were talking about, had warm water, they would have gone even longer. Of course, others may have ended up food

[Ryan]

lol George, I don't live there anymore. It was nice though. Small cracker-style house (2 bedroom, 2 bathroom) with a huge screened-in porch on a lake with a private dock and boat ramp. I spent two very happy years there.

Only bad part? Spiders. We call them "wood spiders," but their actual name are "Huntsman spiders (http://www.giftlog.com/pictures/photo/hantsman_spider1.jpg)." They were bigger than my hand, faster than the speed of light, and would try to attack your hand or foot if you came too close and they felt threatened. Having an overwhelming case of arachnophobia, it was a very long two years. :)

Marie, to answer another question from your original thread... you asked why people suggested adding additional air during treatments. Normally (but not always) treatments for discus require you to crank up the heat to high levels, and the hotter the water, the less oxygen it holds. So you have to increase aeration in order to keep the levels up.

Ryan

[Audrey]

Thanks a lot for the nice spider link, Ryan...I know I am in for some dandy dreams tonight now!!!:o But I just had to click on it and see for myself.

I also have an overwhelming case of arachnophobia!!!! EEEEEEESH!!!!!

I occasionally forget to turn my filtration back on after feeding my discus. I turn it all of with the flick of a switch during feeding time so the foods do not get blown all over the tank. Now and again I will leave for work in the morning and forget to turn it back on. Ten hours later, I come home, freak out, turn it back on and all is well. I try not to do that too often, though it doesn't seem to hurt.

Audrey

[Kindredspirit]

Ryan~

Spiders as big as your hand?? http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_12_1.gif Oh...Hell No! How do you know if they crawled on you while you slept? Omg Ryan... Did you step on them? Are they hairy, ? I so hate hairy spiders.... That is quite a story you told....You must have been very worried~


'the hotter the water the less oxygen it holds' and 'the cooler the water the more it holds...So we have warmer water for our discus, which is less oxygen...hence the reason we use extra airstones...yes? ....I would never have known that...How do you know that? nevermind..lol...I only need to know so much, I'm good!


How you guys remember all this is beyond me!! But I am glad you do~

Audrey~ just today when i plopped beefheart in my tanks, I was trippin on the fact that it swims away in a tiny wave from the filter! Soooooooo you turn yours off, while feeding? But see, I would too, forget to turn it back on!! oh *******...whatcha gonna do?? lol

Thanks everyone!!



Marie~

[traco]

Hence, that is why I keep mine on. Per the story of driving half way down and turning around! This way, with never unplugging it, I won't have to do the "hmmm, did I remember to turn the iron off?" But of course, replace the word "iron" with "filter" and that is me.

I'm glad things worked out with your fishies today, Marie. Thank goodness for all these great people here, heh?

[Kindredspirit]

Yes Barb!! Thank goodness for this place!


I remember that story when you had to turn around....lol!!


I think my beefheart can just swim...They seem to eat it wherever it lands~



Marie~http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_13_8.gif

[Moon Stomper]

Greetings -

Some great information here Thanks...

[Ryan]

Well, here again is why a bare bottom tank is easier to maintain than a tank with substrate.

If you have a prefilter on any intakes (to keep food out of the main filter) and a bare-bottom tank, the food can blow all around in the current and it won't matter. It will be in plain view for the fish to pick off the bottom, or off of the prefilter sponge, and so forth.

However, if you have a tank with gravel or plants, and you leave the filters running, no telling where beefheart, flakes, and other things get blown by the current. And trust me, rotting beefheart that got swept into the gravel is not good for your water quality.

People sometimes suggest turning filters off during feeding, but if your bases are covered then the food has no chance of "hiding" anywhere and it shouldn't matter. They'll eventually settle to the bottom and you can siphon up what's uneaten during your water change.

Ryan

[Kindredspirit]

Ryan very good point! You never answered my spider questions!!!http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/8/8_1_216.gif


Moon Stomper~ I love your name! Bunches...lol...very cool! Think of one for me? I want to change mine, but......I am glad that you could gather some useful information off this thread~ If you follow more of mine, you will see, I ask some pretty dumb questionshttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_5.gif, but I think that some people actually learn along with me...lol~



Marie~

[candyl70]

Marie!! If you change your name I will kick your butt!!!
How the heck are you and your babies now??? Sorry I have not been around, all the traveling gets in the way!! lol!!!

C!!

[White Worm]

Hey candy girl!!! i have been out shoppin last couple days (whew!! All done) I told her she couldnt change her name!. Once someone knows you by your name here, they look for that certain name to talk to. Like I saw you were on here.

[candyl70]

Hey Mikey!!!
How did the shopping go?? Was it crazy?? I just got back to Cali yesterday and everything is packed here! Last minute shopping anyone?? lol!!

Exactly why she can't change her name!! I think it really fits her though :)

C!!

[White Worm]

Shopping was outrageous last night and I cant imagine how it will be right up to Xmas eve.

[candyl70]

Anarchy!! lol!!! Eveyone grabbing for that last ipod!!!

[White Worm]

There is an ipod left???? Where?? LOL! Everything by now has been picked over 2X or more and now people are just grabbing things to buy because its last minute.

[candyl70]

Online shopping is the way to go!!! lol!! not that i did any of that !!!

[Anonapersona]

Oxygen and circulation

An airstone does not add oxygen to the tank from the airbubbles as much as it really justs adds circulation to the tank. The rising bubbles pull water along with them, so that rising water will flow along the surface of the tank picking up fresh oxygen then sink again. So, in a power outage, you need to stir the tank occasionally if you can to get the oxygen down deeper into the tank, or your fish have to hang at the surface to get it.

Oxygen content and carbon dioxide content of the fish tank water are pretty much independant of each other, but if the water is depleted of one or rich in the other, as that water is exposed to air those levels will tend to adjust towards the level of the air.

And Yes, you are more worried about oxygen than heat. Heat loss usually occurs rather slowly, if your tank is insulated somehow ( you need to add insulating board to the back of the tank) but oxygen loss can occur more rapidly for fish and bacteria and live plants inlcuding algae all consume oxygen. For that reason, I would not submerge the filter media in the fish tank, but I'd put it in a plastic bag with a bit of water to keep 100% humidity inside the bag. You'd rinse it well in tank water before using again and test for ammonia frequently as well.

Also, in any power outage, the first thing I do is to add a full dose of Prime to the tank to control any ammonia that might build up. Only if the outage lasts a long time will I start worrying about the filter and temp. After about an hour I'd unplug the filter so I could rinse it before restarting and I'd be watching for oxygen stress. After a few hours I might open a canister or HOB filter to pull the media. In the winter I'd wrap the tank immediately. If the fish need oxygen and you dont have a battery power air pump, then just tank a big cup of water and pour it from a height back into the tank so it splashes, or just swish a net through the tank to stir it and expose more water to air to pick up oxygen. If the fish are in distress and you need to go to sleep, you can add a small bit of hydrogen peroxide, but this can be dangerous and I'd not add more than a capful or 2 for a large tank.

[Kindredspirit]

Anon~ Thank you so much for your time to post all that you did! That was very informative not to mention you explained in a manner even I could understand~


I will put your info in my files if that is okay with you....and the tips on what to do after the power has gone out was very helpful!



Thank You Very Much~


Marie~http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_15_5.gif