discus age/size

[steelheaderdu]

Guys,

I bought a few discus from a very reputable breeder in ohio a few months ago. All fish have been raised in tap water since the begining-- pH 6.6, medium hardness. Anyway, I bought a few blue diamonds at 4 months old and about 2.5-3 inches. I also got some marlboro reds at 3 months old at 2-2.5 inches in size. I am not new to discus keeping or breeding, so I'm not completely blueless.

However, here is the problem. I feed them beefheart and brins shrimp about 4 times per day. I also change their water 25% every night. I have 10 fish in a 75 gallon bare tank. They aren't growing very much.

Here's what they are now. The blue diamonds are about 7 months old. The biggest is 4 inches, and the others are barely 3. The marlboro reds are 6 months old and the biggest is about 3.75 while the smallest is around 2.75. According to my past experiences, these fish should be quite a bit larger by now. Am I correct in my assumption? Is there any hope of getting my fish to at least 5"?? If so, what are your suggestions. Is this my fault, or is it possibly some bad fish. I know I picked the last fish from the spawns-- the only ones left.

The marlboro reds still have the smaller eyes which makes me think they haven't been stunted. However, the blue diamonds are starting to get the bigger eye that may be associated with stunted fish.

Any help or comments would be greatly appreciated.

John

[steelheaderdu]

here are some pictures of the fish, had to throw in a pic of my pair too ;) I generally keep the lights on all the time. Could this be a serious problem? Thanks again for your responses. Please keep in mind, the tank is 75 gallons. Also, what age do they tend to stop growing?

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v395/steelheaderdu/Picture1012.jpg">

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v395/steelheaderdu/Picture1015.jpg">

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v395/steelheaderdu/Picture1017.jpg">

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v395/steelheaderdu/Picture1016.jpg">

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v395/steelheaderdu/Picture1018.jpg">

[Eddie]

They look really nice to me. My fish are disproportioned big time compared to your fish. I don't see anything wrong with your fish. What is that tiger looking one in the backround of pic 2? :)

[steelheaderdu]

Those in the background are called "red samurais" when grown, they will have a chocolate brown body with bright blue fins... pretty neat looking fish, really. Very unique. I may buy a pair within the next few months.

[CARY_GLdiscus]

IME Most Discus that are Imported into the USA are smaller in size and older in age!

Just keep up on W/c's and feeding and more size will come in time!

hth
Cary Gld!

[Eddie]

red samurai. very interesting. he is very nice looking

[steelheaderdu]

cary,

Thanks for the response. These fish are far from being imports, though. The guy I deal with won't go within 100 miles of an imported fish for fear of getting the plague. I guess I'm just a little frsutrated with their small size. What would a normal, average, healthy fish of 7 months be in inches? Also, at 3 inches @ 7 months, what is a realistic size they could reach? I know you're good at what you do, Cary. Any guess? By the way, I' the one that called you from Columbus after our snow storm looking for a place to take my fish. Guess I found someone ;) As soon as I get some saleable babies from my pair, I'm coming up to your hatchery to spend some money.

John
jdewitt@magicwandflyrods.com

[KD]

Hi john,
I started feeding my fish frozen ONF 1 , only my blues seem to like it . These particular fish have had a much better growth rate than my others. I feed it like my beefheart - I shave some off with a paring knife, they swallow the whole thing and no spitting. I do feed this and beefheart for all fish just before a water change - I do 50% every day on tanks. Giving about 10 gallons per fish in tank size.
I also feed CBW, Frozen Hikari Bloodworms, ONF1, 2 and shrimp flakes and a treat of frozen brine now and than. My fish seem to be the only ones that are not interested in Color Bits???
I have also noted that higher water changes and clean clean sponges and filters have helped with growth.
My husband wants to come back as a Discus- LOL!!!
My fish are ranging from the age of yours to about 12 months - purchased at around the same size and now they range from 4" - 6" . I know that is not the biggest seen but I think they are doing pretty well.
All in all water changes ( Id up the % and maybe add another tank) and some time..... As Cary said
Hope this helps!!!
Karen

[CARY_GLdiscus]

cary, HI JOHN,

Thanks for the response. ANYTIME MY FRIEND OFCOURSE AM BETTER OVER THE PHONE LOL! These fish are far from being imports, though. I SEE! The guy I deal with won't go within 100 miles of an imported fish for fear of getting the plague. THE PLAGUE!..... DOES YOUR FRIEND KNOW THAT THE PLAGUE DOES NOT EXIST? BUT HIS FEARS SHOULD BE MORE ON EXTERNAL BACTERIA INFECTIONS THAT CAN BE CURED WITH PROPER QT EVEN WITHOUT MEDS? I guess I'm just a little frsutrated with their small size. I WOULD BE TO! BUT SOME TYPES AND STRAINS GROW AT DIFFRENT RATES SO I WOULD NOT GIVE UP YET! What would a normal, average, healthy fish of 7 months be in inches? MOST OF MY HOMEGROWN DISCUS ARE AT 5" + Also, at 3 inches @ 7 months, what is a realistic size they could reach? 4.5 TO 5" WOULD BE MY BEST GUESS. I know you're good at what you do, Cary. THANKS MAN I TRY. Any guess? By the way, I' the one that called you from Columbus after our snow storm looking for a place to take my fish. Guess I found someone As soon as I get some saleable babies from my pair, I'm coming up to your hatchery to spend some money. WELL FEEL FREE ANYTIME AND GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR DISCUS VENTURE.

BESTWISHES
CARY + FAMILY
XO

[Howie_W]

Hi John,

I checked out your pics and your fish look like they are doing fine.

The best that you can do for them is to keep up on the water changes/tank cleanliness and improve their diet. The beef heart is fine for body fat, but I don't think the brine shrimp in large quantities is doing all that much. Consider adding a quality flake food into their diet, and also some pellet food as well.

As Cary mentioned, fish grow at different rates...some appear to get big quickly, while others take much longer to grow. Your first piority is health...I've had some fish that never became enormous, but that eat well, looked good, and lived long lives.

HTH


Howie

[steelheaderdu]

Thanks guys,

I'll keep all those things in mind. I appreciate your responses.

John

[steve]

Hi John

I just had to respond to this because I have had the same problem, having fish that didn't grow very much. Through trail and error and with the help of this board I have finally figured it all out, I think. First let me say that what Cary said in his last post is right on. But you have to think about what he is telling you. In a tank of 7 month old fish you can have a range size of 3" to 5"+. They are all healthy fish but the 3" fish are never going to get as big as the 5" fish. So if you are going to buy fish from this tank and you are only interested in having big fish (they could all be males) you will buy the 5" fish. The problem is this, when you go to buy the fish, the 5" fish have already been bought or are kept by the breeder. You are probably looking at 3 1/2" to 4" fish to buy and you believe that you are getting the biggest fish. These fish will be nice but they will never be hogs. After a few years of dealing with this frustration and plenty of blaming myself I finally figured out that I was getting the 2 1/2" fish from this batch, doomed to failure. So here is what I did, and it seems to be working, I went to a breeder with a great reputation (cary) and I order about 20 1" fish. Right of the bat I could see a big size difference in this fish, some were twice as big as others. What I have ended up with is about 10 really nice fish, probably all males but that is all right because I don't have time to breed them. Mine are 6 months old and they look to be about an inch or more bigger than yours. Another option you have is to breed these fish and then keep the hogs for yourself and grow them out. Before I did that though I would check out the parents of the fish you have and see just how big they are.

hth, Steve

[Bobby_L]

There have been very interesting points made on this topic. When I first became interested in Discus I would visit LFS and see very large adults. I have some discus that I've had for three years and none of them have reached the same large size. I've tried various foods and have settled on Wattley Beefheart, Hakari frozen Bloodworms, and Hai-Feng Super Bits.

IMO there are some hard to overcome issues for the average hobbyist regarding obtaining and growing out juvenile discus. I have to agree that one difficult issue that is often overlooked is obtaining genetically predisposed large fish, as most of us do not have the pick of the litter or knowledge how big the parents are. Obliviously buying from reputable breeders could be helpful, but not always an option because of shipping cost.

Who you recommend buying from to get juvies with potential to become big round fish?

[limige]

before i found simply i feed all frozen brine shrimp, on1, and bloodworms. i also didn't change the water all that much.

after finding my way to simply i started feeding blackworms and doing daily wc's. my fish started to grow much better.
but still i notice growth spurts. they grow quickly from the time they are free swimming till they reach 2-3" then they slow and are usually up to 3.5-4" by 8 months or so, but they don't seem to really reach that 5-6" range until they are 16 months old or so.

now this is my experience. i go to cary's all the time and his future breeders are like 5" at 8 months old!!! Cary is definitely the shiznit on these fish. but don't expect the same results, cary has a few tricks up his sleeve i tell you!! lol he's got alot of years into this hobby, that is if you still consider it a hobby, his wife may disagree! lol

anyway, i expect your seeing normal growth, i wouldn't pass judgement on them until they are 2yrs old, then you should know if you did something wrong or not.
some of my first fish were raised in a tank with undergravel filters and whispers on the side. it took them over two years to attain 5 1/2 inches but some did!

be patient and keep on keeping on!

good luck!
mike

ps: you know how to use those rods you make??? maybe we should head out when the ice thaws!

[limige]

steve welcome to simply! seems like your on the right track! cary's fish are step 1 of successful discus keeping!

[Cosmo]

John,

My first priority has always been to have healthy, happy fish.. I love the looks of the ones that grow huge but still enjoy the ones that don't as well. As noted above, different fish will grow at different rates.. the largest in my big tank right now is a Male RT that's about 7in ... 6 or 8 months ago he was the smallest in the tank.... I'd second (or is it third/fourth) the increase in your WC % and keep the tank clean like Howie said... and don't let the size be your first concern.. unless you're planning on entering them in a show or something :) Only looked at a few of your pics, but everyone's right, they are really nice looking fish so you're obviously doing something right :D

Jim

[steve]

Thanks Mike.

One more comment John, I misread cary's answer to you, he wasn't saying that his fish run from 3" to 5"+. He was saying that most of his fish at this age are 5"+.
Also, I think you answered your own question when you stated that you picked the last of the spawn. In the last picture that you posted, the blue diamonds, those look like very nice fish with good size for their age.

Steve