formalin vs. formaldehyde.

[daninthesand]

I was wondering how many of you use pure 100% formaldehyde for treating your fishies. If so do you use it straight or mix up a batch of 37% (the typical formalin strength)? Does the mixture remain stable for a long time without adding any stabilizers?

Does anyone know if formalin has anything else in it besides formaldehyde dissolved water?

Daniel

[Discusgeo]

I only use the 37% formaldehyde along with Formalin. The other product in Formalin is Methanol 6-13%
George

[daninthesand]

Thanks George.

I did a search and answered my own question.

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/BODY_VM061

The article, buy Ruth Francis-Floyd:

1. This document is VM-77, one of a series of the College of Veterinary Medicine, Florida Cooperative Extension Service, Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences, University of Florida. Date published April 1996. Please visit the FAIRS Web site at http://hammock.ifas.ufl.edu.
2. Ruth Francis-Floyd, Joint Associate Professor, Department of Large Animal Clinical Sciences and Department of Fisheries and Aquatic Sciences, Cooperative Extension Service, Institute of Food and Agricultural Sciences, University of Florida, Gainesville, 32611.



starts out as follows:

"Formalin is a generic term which describes a solution of 37% formaldehyde gas dissolved in water. Solutions of formalin for use on fish should contain 10 to 15% methanol, which inhibits formation of paraformaldehyde (discussed below), a highly toxic compound."

I can find 10% formaldehyde but for some reason 37% is harder to find here in Canada.

Daniel

[limige]

so am i understanding correctly....we are looking for 37 percentage hyde, not formalin, cuz formalin contains meth?

[daninthesand]

limige

If by "we" you mean me, then no, I am looking for whatever it is people use.

I'm interested in what it is that everyone uses when they use terms like "hyde" or "formaldehyde" or "formalin". The more I look around at specifics the more it appears these terms are not interchangeable. So what is it exactly that everybody is using? What does it say on the package?

Daniel

[Ardan]

Hi,
I use 37 % formaldehyde, called formalin.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?siteid=6&pCatId=4769
I use it at 3 drops per gallon for 8 hrs, then 50% wc.
Extra aeration, not high temps. (lower than 85F)

hth

Same as Ardan. 37% Formaldehyde is readily available from all Laboratory. Pharmacy or drug store can order it for you. $7.00 per 500ml. Mine came from Abbott Laboratory.
Jimmy.

[daninthesand]

Thanks Ardan and Jimmy. I sure wish I could order this stuff from the states. It would make things a lot easier. But I doubt it would get through customs.

Jimmy send me the name of the drug store that charges 7 bucks. Around here they are asking over 45 bucks for that amount! Why do you think I'm trying to find a way to make it myself.!!!

I can get pure formaldehyde from a chemical supplier but i have to by 4 litres of it!!! And they also sell 10% formalin but have a minimum $70 order limit.

At least now I know what I'm looking for exactly. Thanks.

The search continues....

Daniel

[daninthesand]

Yee haw. I just did some more phoning around and found it at Safeway Pharmacy just down the street. Special order but its only $8.95 for 500ml. Woo hoo. Shoppers drug mart was way out of line 47 bucks. :yikes:

Daniel ;)

[RandalB]

Umm. If I remember correctly, Formalin is just Formaldehyde dissolved in water....


RandalB

[CARY_GLdiscus]

All Formaldahyde Contains amounts of Methonal!
Thats what it is made from.

Some grades are higher and may only contain 1% of Meth
Most of the 37% being used by fish keepers contains 11% to 12% meth in it!

IMO Formalin is just another name for a weaker cut! nothing more but alot less.

hth
cary gld!

[daninthesand]

Hi Cary.
Thanks for your input. So what you are saying is that you use pure uncut formaldehyde? And that it contains methanol only and no water?

Just curious?

Daniel

[brewmaster15]

Hi all,,
I agree with Cary.

. formalin is 37 %formaldehyde in water., and the amount of methanol does not matter. Its added as a stabilizer so that the formalin does not turn to a toxic byproduct... paraformaldehyde. Paraformaldehyde forms when formaldehyde is subject to cold temperatures, its a white precipitate. Methanol is usually added in the 10-15% range.

I have used both with and without methanol. Doesnt matter.

If its white...don't use it.

-al

[daninthesand]

Hi Al.

So when a recipe for using 3 drops per gallon of "hyde" per 10 gallon of water to treat flukes for example it does not matter if its formalin(37%) or straight formaldehyde? This is my point. I'm getting vague results as I search the simply data base on various posts on the subject.....

I can get 10% formaldehyde for free, can I use that with the same dosage and have successful treatments?

Daniel

[brewmaster15]

Hi Dan,
I didn't say the % of formaldehyde didn't matter... I said the % methanol it contains doesn't matter. The % formaldehyde does matter..

37% formaldehyde aka formalin.. 2-3 drops per gal.. many do a 50% wc 4 hours afters...its basically about 1 ml/ 10 gals.


10 % formaldehyde you would need to use more. approx 4 X as much. I have used 10 % lab grade formaldehyde .. with and without methanol added . I just use more of it.

does that help?

-al

[daninthesand]

Ok.

That helps a lot. Maybe I'm just dense. :-[ LOL!

Thanks everyone for your input.

Daniel

[CARY_GLdiscus]

Dan,
I use 37/11 this means its 37% hyde and 11% Meth! it comes from www.4fishstuff.com anybody need some email me.

[daninthesand]

thanks cary. now, can you move to canada? ;D

Daniel

[CARY_GLdiscus]

I send it! ;)

[daninthesand]

Well I got the two bottles of formaldehyde 37% today. One was very milky white so I decided not to take it. The other is almost clear but does a have a very slight white tinge to it. It does not say on the bottle if there is methanol in it and the pharmacist did not know either.... The bottle does say that "preciptitaion is normal with this product" Is it still safe to use? I would not call the white a ppt per se, I don't see crystals but I guess it could be....


Daniel

[brewmaster15]

Dan,
Save the milky white stuff when you want to kill a tank a fish...j/k :) Don't use it...its paraformaldehyde now. The other... You will sometimes get some crystaline precipitate..usually along the cap area.. sometimes in the bottle. As long as its clear and the crystals are...you should be okay...at least it always has been for me. :) It its cloudy... don't use it.

hth,
al