discus buffer

[Mattzilla]

what is everyones opinion and experience with using discus buffer to regulate the ph in your tank?

thanks everyone ;D

[nalah]

hi Matt.
tried it.dont use it. drops ph REALLY fast and low. Also,algae seems to grow in tanks at a rapid rate.
now using acid buffer.

are you having problems with your ph at the moment?

[letranista]

Using some sodium biosulfate from Walmart[pool supplies]. They give you a lot for $7[1/2 gallon] . Visited the LFS and saw a company selling the same thing but bottled for aquarium use for $3 for a 3 ounce container. Exactly the same thing.Boy, somebody is getting rich. I have 7.5 in my tap and if i use a ratio of 1/4 teaspoon per 10 gallon it goes down to 6.5 and stays there. I got to admit I do WC everyday so it really doesn't have time to crash or go up[ph].Maybe somebody got some experience using these and would like to share some knowledge. Thanks.....

[Richman]

If you want your water to be at 6.5 I guess it doesn't hurt. No reason why your fish shouldn't do fine at 7.5 if you adjust it over a few days. Save yourself the cost and the trouble of constant ph adjustment.

[samcatj]

I am currently using acid buffer and it works fine with no algae buildup. My understanding is that the discus buffer will give you some algae growth. Does any one know of any truth to that ?

samcatj

[Willie]

Correct. Discus buffer is phosphate based. The phosphates will be used by algae and the buffering capacity is gone rapidly. Seachem's Acid Buffer and Alkaline Buffer are not phosphate based. You can use them in combination to get any pH between 4.5 - 8.0. I use Acid Buffer alone to bring my tap down to pH 5.0 for heckels.

Willie

[Wolf]

Willie does your ph fluctuate at all with the acid buffer? I use the discus buffer and would like to switch over to the acid buffer. My water stays nice and stable with the discus buffer. I was wondering if you have ph swings and what is your kh and gh in the tanks.

[JeffreyRichard]

I've used Discus Buffer quite extensively in the past, when I was under the belief that my Angelfish and Discus NEEDED acid water conditions. I used to go through 4 Kilos every 2 weeks ....

Discus Buffer, in combination with Neutral Regulator, are actually nice products that will fix your pH for you. However, there are several problems with these products:
As stated by Willie, they are phosphate based buffers and will cause major algae buildups in many tanks. If you are strictly growing out fry, or don't care about the appearance of you tank, no problem. However, if you are talking about a show tank or a planted tank, stay away from these ... Discus Buffer claims to soften water. This is partcially correct; it will drop the Carbonic Hardness by replacing calcium ions with magnesium and other salts. Unfortunately, this product actually raises the amount of Total Dissolved Solids in the water, thus making the general hardness higher. This will affect breeding ... my angelfish eggs actually stopped hatching until I stopped using these, then everything returned to normal.

If you are not breeding, forget about the pH. The pH out of my tap is 9.5 ... my discus are doing fine. If you are breeding, I suggest you try filtering your water through peat. This will soften and drop the pH.If peat doesn't do the job, consider RO and mixing in an acid (Muriatic).

Jeff

I've used discus buffer and acid buffer, and I almost went broke doing so. Acid buffer is definitely the better of the two, though. A couple of months ago I started using muriatic acid and it has worked GREAT. It costs $3.50 a gallon at the hardware store and a gallon lasts forever-I'm still on my first one! I would recommend it to anyone who has to adjust PH.
ROB

[fcdiscus]

Jeff- Am I reading that right! You keep your Discus in straight tap at a pH of 9.5? Frank

[Wolf]

Yes. Please elaborate a little bit. How long have you been keeping them at 9.5ph and is the growth rate effected at all? My ph is 10.2 out of the tap and I just felt like they would be healthier if I kept them more in the optimum range. If my ph was 8.5 or below, I would do nothing to the water to adjust it but I don't have good water to work with. I wonder what is the highest ph discus can be kept healthy in? I don't see people keeping discus at 9ph or above very often.

[Wolf]

I've used discus buffer and acid buffer, and I almost went broke doing so. Acid buffer is definitely the better of the two, though. A couple of months ago I started using muriatic acid and it has worked GREAT. It costs $3.50 a gallon at the hardware store and a gallon lasts forever-I'm still on my first one! I would recommend it to anyone who has to adjust PH.

Hi, thanks for that incite. I have been seriously considering this. How do you mix the muratic acid? Do you dilute it and how much do you dilute it if you do? How is the buffering when using it? Does the ph fluctuate at all for you? I am tired of paying $18 for discus buffer and I think it would not only be cheaper but it will help keep my algae and tds down in the process.

I've always heard of people using a mixture of acid and alkaline buffer to achieve the desired pH, not just one product. Do they actually work individually?
Brad

[JeffreyRichard]

FCDiscus - My tapwater is very soft (70 ppm) and the pH is artificially boosted by the Municiple Water District using lime (supposedly helps pipes from corroding). My tanks are actually 7-7.8 pH ... when the tap water is mixed with tank water, the pH settles down pretty quick. However, I will not hesitate to empty a tank 90% and refill with tap water. Doesn't seem to affect the fish at all ... I've raise hundreds of discus and thousands of angels over the years.

Wolf,
I don't mix the acid at all, although I don't see any reason why you couldn't. I just pour it, full strength, into an old stress coat bottle with the lid just barely open so I can dispense it by the drop. Be careful- it is powerful stuff! If you add it straight to your tank, I would recommend diluting it first in case you accidently add too much. I adjust PH in my prep tubs rather then the tank itself to avoid things like that.
The muriatic seems to keep my water even MORE stable then the acid buffer did. My tap is over 9 and when I drop it, it really fights to raise again. I can lower it to six and the next morning it will be 7.5, but when using acid buffer it was worse-more like to 8 or 8.3. I have to age my water for 48 hours before it will settle down, and this is only a 10% tap mixture! If I used pure tap, I would never be able to have discus.
I wouldn't recommend ANYONE to keep discus in a PH that high for a number of reasons. The main reason for me is because I have a live-plant setup. Another good reason is because ammonia is in an unbelievably toxic form at high PH and to have an unnoticed spike for whatever reason would most likely result in a total or near-total loss of all the fish your tank. Not a risk worth taking. IMO
8) 8) Rob

[Flexy]

I have used product called "PH DOWN" with great results. It used sulphuric acid. Expensive.

[Wolf]

Thanks BBI. Very good point about the ammonia. I didn't even consider that. I am almost out of discus buffer so I'm going to try your method this time. I can get 2 bottles at home Depot for $6 versus the discus buffer for $18. I think I will try diluting it at 10%-20% in a gallon of water for safety when using it. I will adjust it and test it for a couple of days to see how it does for stability before I put it in my tank. Right now I use a 55g drum to do all my adjustments and aging of the water. I wish I had a gh and kh kit. Anyone know which one effects (kh/gh) the ability of a water to hold a certain ph range consistently? Right now if I don't change my water for a week the ph will stay steady. Of course, this would only be for vacation or emergency reasons but I want to be able to do this with the acid also without having to worry about crashes.

[Willie]

I think Jeff has said it all about Acid Buffer. Note that muriatic acid will bring pH down, but it does not add buffering capacity to the water.

If you want to play with acid, remember the following rule.

"Always add acid to water. Never add water to acid."

Live long and ... intact.

Willie ;)