I lost 6 of my Discus

[rahul5781]

Hi All... I am part of this group since 6 months ... 3 months into discus keeping ... I use 100% RO water but age it for a day or two before I do water change... Cuz our tap water is not all that clean... But my guys are not OK with it ... They have been stressed all the time... I lost close to 6 of my 3 inch discus... I am not able to figure out what is the issue... Now they have stopped eating also... Really worried about these guys...

Mine is a bare bottom tank.. I use a sponge filter as well as a canister filter... I feed them home made mutton heart mix... Tds is about 20... PH is at 7... Need help guy's

[GVB]

Sorry to hear this, but it does happen to new discus keepers all too often. Let's try to figure this out!

The water parameters that you listed seem okay, although I personally keep a bit higher of a TDS. The tank setup also seems appropriate.
What is the temperature of your tank? What is the size of your tank? How often do you change your water? If you have a light for the tank, how long do you keep it on for? What media do you have in your canister? What type/size canister? Have you tested for nitrates, nitrate, and ammonia?

I know that is a lot of questions but the answers to them will help to diagnose the problem.

[pitdogg2]

100% RO cannot keep a pH of 7 IMHO The reason it test at 7.0 is usually there is equal amounts of nothing hence 7.0. Add very little acid or base and it takes off one way or the other that is why you are having problems large pH swings I believe. I kept Discus in pure RO back in the early 80's and my pH was 4.5 - 5.5 for some wilds this can be beneficial

Discus like a stable pH whether it is 8.5 or 6.5 as long as it is stable. You did not say whether or not you are adding any remineralization back to your RO water. Keeping young small Discus in straight RO can have bad effects to the skeletal structure of the growing fish.

I also do not believe there is any reason to "age" RO water the reason most age is to gas off CO2 or bring in CO2 to stabilize the pH. it also helps to gas off Chlorine from the city supplies if your city/country ONLY uses Chlorine, for a Chloriamine it will only help with stabilizing the pH.

You have not said how often you are doing water changes or how much at a time. With RO your pH could be falling dramatically then with your water change it could be bouncing up dramatically

AS GVB stated we really need a whole lot more info.

[LizStreithorst]

Please go to the disease section and fill out the form.

[rahul5781]

Tank temperature - 29 - 30 degree
Tank size - 3.5 x 2 feet
WC - 50 to 70% every 2 days
White LED Light is on for 6 hours on a timer
Sunsun 302 canister filter.. 2 layers of sponge and 1 layer of ada media.. Which is on 24 hours

I have not bought a test kit.. As mine is a bare bottom tank and siphon out the food in about half an hour of feeding and I also remove the waste out everyday

They where shitting white so I have done metro treatment for about 6 to 8 days 100 ml for 10 gallon in my quarantine tank now I have removed all of them from the main tank.. Cleaning it up and start fresh.. Now all 6 are in the small tank..

Hope this information will help. Kindly suggest what do we do next

[Neptune]

Are you remineralizing your RO water?
If not, you are probably getting wild pH swings.

[rahul5781]

No I am not remineralizing the RO water... How do I do that.? Please tell me... May be that is the biggest problem

[pitdogg2]

No I am not remineralizing the RO water... How do I do that.? Please tell me... May be that is the biggest problem
Easiest would be a 50/50 or 60/40 with tap water unless you live where the water is just a step or two above sewage like. As I stated in my post above 100%RO has very little buffering and can go on huge swings in pH either acidic or alkaline.

[Neptune]

As mentioned if you do 50/50 water you probably don't have to remineralize but if you use straight RO
watch this, quick explanation and how he does it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xr-SjFJ_0eY

There are lots of "all-in-one" buffer products on the market as well. You just measure and dump in your aging barrel.

I think if you start to get a handle on your pH you will see a marked improvement in your fish.
Keep us posted.

I do 50/50 Ro/tap water. I do 60% WC every other day with no health problems. My pH ends up being 8.2-8.3. On the high side but its stable and that's what makes the difference.

[rahul5781]

Hi All... I mixed RO water and tap water.. Aged it for a day.. Tds is at 75.. Did about 80% water change today... Let's see how they go about it...

Also they have not been eating home made mutton heart mix.. So I am feeding them australian black worms.. Which they are eating... So feeding them black worms every day will it be a problem? As these guys are not eating anything else... Any suggestions to make they guys eat?

[rahul5781]

Hi All... I lost one more... :( today morning... There is one more swimming on top layer of water... I don't know what to do... Really feeling sad for them... Now I have only 4 left which looks a little fine..

[pitdogg2]

Well if I had been losing fish like this first thing I would want to know is my water parameters as to ammonia, nitrite first and foremost to rule out either one. So since you mixed now did you use any water conditioner for chlorine or chloramine.

[BmoreBraap]

Also, when you age the water are you putting an airstone or power head pump in it? That is crucial for releasing any C02 or gas. I aged my water once in just a 5 gallon bucket and no airstone and the PH stayed the same at 7 after 24 hours. When I used an airstone, my PH after aging was at 8, it went up a full point. Before I realized this I was doing water changes straight from my tap into the tank, creating big PH swings and killing one of my fish.

[rahul5781]

Yes I am mixing 60 / 40 RO and tape water... And aging it with air stone... PH is at 7.5 & tds at about 70... Also I am using dechlorinate liquid..... To remove chlorine.. Still the same problem.. Don't know what to do..

[BmoreBraap]

Yes I am mixing 60 / 40 RO and tape water... And aging it with air stone... PH is at 7.5 & tds at about 70... Also I am using dechlorinate liquid..... To remove chlorine.. Still the same problem.. Don't know what to do..

If you dont have any test kits for your water, take a sample to your local fish store and ask them to test it, any reputable store will do this for free. Then please post your levels and can go from there. Otherwise this is like trying to patch a wound in pitch dark, no idea what we should be trying to fix or how.

[Cosmo]

Sorry to hear about your loss, it's always a bummer losing a fish, much less several of them :( A long time ago, in a glaxay far far away, I too used 100% RO water, I don't anymore. When I did, I remineralized it using a combination of Kent RO Right, Kent PH Stable, and Kent Discus Essentials. RO water is very acidic by nature, it may read 7.0 Ph when it's 100% pure RO, but that is only because the meter can't read it - add some Gh and it'll read down in the 5.x range. As noted by several above pure RO is highly Ph unstable so you WILL experience severe Ph crashes which can kill the fish. Good to see you're now using a 50/50 mix and ageing both but you are still very much at risk of Ph crashes, and, your tap may not be adding the necessary minerals and salts your fish need to thrive. I personally stopped using RO water and now use 100% aged tap water and add only food grade Phosphoric Acid (85%)(to reduce ph to 6.85 approx), Kent Discus Essentials, and Seachem Prime. The fish seem to love this mixture. Substantial daily water changes as well of course! Good luck with your fish !!

[rahul5781]

Thanks for the reply guys... Let me check if can test my water at some store nearby.. In bangalore, India.. @cosmo.. I need to check where I can get phosphoric acid... Seachem prime I found online.. But no Kent discus essentials... I have azoo discus vitamins that I bought recently... I have not used it yet.. I guess 60 % RO & 40% tap water + Seachem prime + discus vitamins and aging for a day wit air stone should be fine.. What do you say?

[Akili]

Rahul, give up on phosphoric acid because if you are not careful with it the pH drop in your tank will kill all your fish. I suggest you also stop use RO water for the time being.Use aged tap water to do your water changes.May I add that you need to do daily large water changes.Siphon all all uneaten foods and waste and then change the water, best time for it would before the lights go off for the evening .If you check with Bangalore Water Supply and Sewerage Board you find out that Total dissolved solids of your water is 500 mg/l. The majority of the water for Bangalore is imported by the BWSSB from the Cauvery River.Even the United States has established a secondary water quality standard of 500 mg/l to provide for palatability of drinking water.If it is good enough for humans to drink then it good for the fish in my opinion.

[rahul5781]

Thank you @Akili... I have mixed both today... And added Seachem Prime + azoo discus vitamins to aged water and air stone.. For 3 hrs... Did 80% water change just sometime back... Next time I will use 80% tap water with prime and air stone...

[pitdogg2]

Rahul, give up on phosphoric acid because if you are not careful with it the pH drop in your tank will kill all your fish. I suggest you also stop use RO water for the time being.Use aged tap water to do your water changes.May I add that you need to do daily large water changes.Siphon all all uneaten foods and waste and then change the water, best time for it would before the lights go off for the evening .If you check with Bangalore Water Supply and Sewerage Board you find out that Total dissolved solids of your water is 500 mg/l. The majority of the water for Bangalore is imported by the BWSSB from the Cauvery River.Even the United States has established a secondary water quality standard of 500 mg/l to provide for palatability of drinking water.If it is good enough for humans to drink then it good for the fish in my opinion.

Agreed..... Until you get a handle on keeping a stable environmental stop throwing chemicals in there or you will never be very successful at keeping Discus.

[rahul5781]

Hi All... I am planning to do 80 %water change tomorrow with aged tap water... I have put Seachem Prime and air stone in the tub.... But now when I see the TDS it's at 130+...is that OK for these guys?

[Second Hand Pat]

Yup, 130 is fine and discus can handle much higher.
Pat

[rahul5781]

Hi All.. I done 80%water change last night... They look OK... But they are really scared... Only 3 left out of 15...:(... But now they are not eating mutton heart mix soaked in garlic guard... They seem to be eating only Australian black worms... Is that OK? They don't eat hikari or tetra bits... What else can I feed these guys...?

[Krissy]

Hi Rahul, so sorry to hear about your losses. I'm only new to Discus keeping too but mine appear happy and healthy and allow me to hand feed them. I feed mine spiralina flakes first thing in the morning, mid morning Aussie black worms (they love these) mid afternoon Aussie black worms again and I change their dinner around between beef heart and prawn mix or brine shrimps or bloodworms or discus granules. They seem to enjoy the change but the greedy little blighters love the black worms above all else. I fanatically test my water regularly for nitrates, ammonia, ph, and nitrites and have recently increased to twice a week wc of 60%. Hope this helps, I'm sure someone with far greater experience will be able to offer other suggestions. I'll benefit too from other responses you get. Good luck, I hope the situation improves for you.

[Akili]

Hi All.. I done 80%water change last night... They look OK... But they are really scared... Only 3 left out of 15...:(... But now they are not eating mutton heart mix soaked in garlic guard... They seem to be eating only Australian black worms... Is that OK? They don't eat hikari or tetra bits... What else can I feed these guys...?Always try different foods first feed of the day, when they are hungriest the most.Also keep in mind that That Discus are a schooling fisH they do the best in groups of five or more. If you were to get more fish make sure that you quarantine them properly first before adding them.

[rahul5781]

Hi All.. Today morning I found white poop in the tank... One of them is shiting white... The other 2 are eating Australian black worms... It's really cold here so I have left the heater on... I don't know what to do..? I am really worried about these 3...

[navarro1950]

Hi Rahul , sorry that you have lost so many of your discus . Don't let this get you discouraged about keep discus . I've read where you are giving the water test results but you never said you bought a freshwater test kit. You need a freshwater test kit even if you have a bare bottom tank or not. And also did you cycle your tank before you added the fish ? If not that could be part of the problem right there.

[rahul5781]

Hi... Fresh water test kit I have not bought.. It's too expensive.. Also as of now I have cleaned my hospital tank.. Will put a couple of guppies and neon tetra in it with a sponge filter and cycle that tank for about 10 days... Then I will shift my discus into that tank.. Later setup my main tank with the canister filter and run it with the small fishes for about 10 days and shift the discus back to the main tank... Is that good enough cycling?.. I also wanted to know if we can put guppies with discus?

[Kyla]

guppies and neon tetras could introduce pathogens to the hospital tank... best option is to cycle the new tank with pure ammonia. but u already have the fish so its too late to cycle the tank this way.

if u have a few little fish in a tank and u then transfer ur bigger discus in, there will not be enough Beneficial Bacteria established because the little fish produce less ammonia than the discus will produce. BB only grow to match the ammonia source, so you will have an ammonia spike when u add larger fish because there arent enough BB to consume the ammonia they produce.

Also, 10 days is not enough time to cycle a tank. You need more like 6 weeks.

If all your other fish are dead and u just have a few discus left who are all showing signs of illness, why are you moving them to a new quarantine tank? why arent you just working on them in the main tank? and did you say your quarantine tank is 10gallons? that sounds too small to me.

i know u say a test kit is too expensive but a big issue here is that we are trying to give you advice and we dont have enough information to go on. we dont know what your water parameters are, so we are just guessing at the causes of your problems...

I suspect, based on your questions about cycling, that you may not have a cycled tank. i also suspect you are not doing enough water changes, and if your tank isnt cycled then this is really going to cause problems. if you cant provide water parameters you need to do at leaat 100% daily water changes to eliminate ammonia/nitrite as your issue.

if u think your tap water is bad (did i miss the explanation of why u think your tap water is bad?) you should do the RO mix ppl have suggested and age/aerate it to make sure there is no ph swing (did you age test your tap water to see if there is actually a pH swing???)

outside of these water issues your discus may also be sick with other issues BUT we cant know whether the issue is water related or disease related until your water is eliminated as the issue.

you really need that test kit.

and if they are eating FDBW then keep feeding them those. some ppl feed that exclusively, so dont be concerned about that at this point, just try to get ur water under control and get them to eat whatever they will take in the meantime.

[pitdogg2]

Hi... Fresh water test kit I have not bought.. It's too expensive.. Also as of now I have cleaned my hospital tank.. Will put a couple of guppies and neon tetra in it with a sponge filter and cycle that tank for about 10 days... Then I will shift my discus into that tank.. Later setup my main tank with the canister filter and run it with the small fishes for about 10 days and shift the discus back to the main tank... Is that good enough cycling?.. I also wanted to know if we can put guppies with discus?
Hogwash on the expense of test kits. You could of bought all you need for the expense of one good Discus....remind me again how many Discus you have lost oh let's see about 20 test kits worth!!
You are seriously going about this all the wrong way....

Putting possible disease carry fish in a hospital tank and expecting any good outcome is crazy. If you do not introduce anything it is pure dumb luck.

Honestly this is turning out to be a great thread to show people what NOT TO DO ....

[Dhavalsp]

Hi Rahul,

Do you keep your heater on and temperature stable for 24/7? I saw your comment where you mentioned that you have left the heater on because it was too cold today.

Regarding water, I think you are trying too many things at the same time...I think you should try aged water(not RO) with dechlorinator . also, add a heater in the aging barrel so you that you are introducing water at the right temperature during water changes. Water in India is heavily treated with chemicals, I would just let it age for a day and then add dechlorinating agent couple of hours prior to WC.

to be really honest, if you are really serious about discus, I would let go of those 3/20 fish and start fresh.

Good luck! - Dhaval

[rahul5781]

Hi All... Thanks guys for all the help and support... I finally got my water tested... 0 Ammonia... Nitrate is also really low.. It's fine that is what my aquarium store guy said... Now going by all your suggestions we are using, 100% tap water aging it for 2 days with air stone and adding Seachem Prime... These guys look OK now.. But eating only Australian black worms... I am feeding them twice a day..

Hopefully these guys do well.. Thanks guys for all the help

[rahul5781]

Hi All... These guys look fine.. But now new issues... I installed my canister filter and now it is leaking... Bad times. :( are still not over... Anyways so I have removed the canister... So what I have currently is just a Big size sponge filter.. . Please let me know if that is good enough for a tank size of 42*18*18 inch..
Or do I get my canister filter repaired and use it.
I also remove uneaten food and fish waste everyday from the tank...
Experts please advise?