Discus dark and look bloated

[Christian74]

Hello just wondering if someone can help me I have a 55 gallon bare bottom with 8 discus I'm growing out been doing daily 50% plus water changes for about a month now. Feed them beef heart and color bits. Passed few days I noticed a couple fish are dark and breathing heavy. Now I seen some are bloated and also see some white poop floating around the tank. Can anyone help me with some advise cause I'm dumb founded from cleaning the tank everyday the fish get sick? But at times I have tanks with a weekly water change no problem. I'm very confused can use some advise please. Thank you

[Rudustin]

Can you fill out the disease questionnaire and that will give us more information that someone can assess the problem?

[Christian74]

Can you fill out the disease questionnaire and that will give us more information that someone can assess the problem?

Where is the questionnaire. And just like to add the fish aren't bloated anymore but one is always dark than bright after a water change and the biggest of the group isn't eating. And I see some white feces floating around like almost looking like intestiants please any advise would help

[rickztahone]

Where is the questionnaire. And just like to add the fish aren't bloated anymore but one is always dark than bright after a water change and the biggest of the group isn't eating. And I see some white feces floating around like almost looking like intestiants please any advise would help

Here you go:
Please complete thus questionnaire if your fish are sick (copy and paste). The more details you can provide, the better we are able to diagnose and help you treat your sick fish.

DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE


Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.



Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.


5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).


6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?


7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.


8. Parameters and water source;


Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.

- temp _____

- ph _____

- ammonia reading ____

- nitrite reading ____

- nitrate reading ____

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____

- municipal water ____

- RO water ____


9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.


10. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

[Christian74]

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?
I noticed for the passed week a few of my discus are acting weird less eating they will be dark espeically one of them than be bright again than even eat again. And the biggest of the group hasnt eat in about a week i noticed. i also never feed frozen blood worms and fed them it about a week ago and than started noticing this



2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).
Turning dark, sometimes a few scratching against the cones, i noticed a white almost intestate looking feces in the tank i cant seem to see who is letting it go.


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.
no medicines only aquarium salt



Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
8 fish in a bare bottom 55 gallon. fish from 4-6 inches
3 cory cats one bushy nose pleco


5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
daily 50% water change for the last month. (growing out)



6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
Tanks been running a couple years bare bottom
7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
24 hour age tap water no ph swing

8. Parameters and water source;
water source is aged tap water. ph is 6.0 temperature is 82-85

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp ____82-85_

- ph __6.0___

- ammonia reading ____

- nitrite reading ____

- nitrate reading ____

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____

- municipal water ____

- RO water ____


9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
no

10. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

[100fuegos]

My fish got capillaria worms in the past from frozen bloodworms. I am not telling you yours have but it would be wise to catch some fresh feces and take a look at them under a scope. Capillaria worms are easily recognized by their barrel eggs. Capillaria infestation in my case came with a flagelate infestation too, so lots of capillaria eggs and lots and lots of small flagelates running around in the sample I observed.

Two of my fish never recovered and had to be culled, the rest pulled through. Flubendazole and metro (not together) was what I used.

I recommend to look at their feces (fresh) under a scope and start from there.

[Christian74]

i wake up to this today the discus is flipping and bloated upside down on top of the tank. My brother told me he seen him doing this two nights ago i didnt believe him cause he was fine yesterday and eating. Please help
88839

[Patrick84]

Hi, your fish doesnt look too good.... look at those stress bars.... and colours are off....
i think it's the problem of water.... you didnt list down the value of amnonia, nitrites and nitrates....
My advise is up your wc % to 80-90% per day..... I will put some yellow powder, just to prevent secondary infection, add more of dechlorine solution
feed them very minimal or even without....
turn off the lights.....and pray hard in front of them..... you need to act fast....
thanks...

[Christian74]

Hi, your fish doesnt look too good.... look at those stress bars.... and colours are off....
i think it's the problem of water.... you didnt list down the value of amnonia, nitrites and nitrates....
My advise is up your wc % to 80-90% per day..... I will put some yellow powder, just to prevent secondary infection, add more of dechlorine solution
feed them very minimal or even without....
turn off the lights.....and pray hard in front of them..... you need to act fast....
thanks...

i didnt post the amnonia, nitries and nitrates because i ran out of the test strips but when i checked last they were all normal. At im not feeding them enough for daily 50% water changes to not be keeping them levels at a normal rate.

[Loosir]

This might need to be moved to the emergency room section and have only experienced members comment.

There are different problems (internal bacterial infections, external bacterial infections, Parasites, Fungus, Viruses etc.. ) All of these require different meds and each set of meds will weaken or stress the fish. Too many meds and the fish dies from the treatment not the sickness, so please do not just medicate with any or everything until you are sure what it is.

I'm not an experienced member but I just went through something similar, so here's my two cents,

Bloated belly, dark colors and popeye (where the eyes look like they are being pushed out of the head). These look like the symptoms of Dropsy an internal bacterial infection. Kanamycin helped my guys.

You may be too late for this one but you'll need to watch the rest of your tank and see if others act the same.

Good Luck,

Geoff

[Christian74]

thank you where can i get this medicine any local fish store you think would carry it? i dont seem to see any pop eye going on with them. Like the majority are still eating except the big one that hasnt and even the one upside down yesterday was fine. I been keeping fish many years never seen any of this happen like this thats why im so confused.

[Loosir]

I don't want to lead you into thinking it Dropsy if its not.

The water parameters may be what causing this, but I think the white feces is also a giveaway that its bacterial.

If others agree that bloat, white feces and dark colors, point to internal bacteria then go ahead and medicate.

I get my meds from jehmco.com, great people, and they're in NJ so they can overnight it to you. LFS may carry Seachem's Neomycin, but its in smaller quantities.

[Christian74]

I don't want to lead you into thinking it Dropsy if its not.

The water parameters may be what causing this, but I think the white feces is also a giveaway that its bacterial.

If others agree that bloat, white feces and dark colors, point to internal bacteria then go ahead and medicate.

I get my meds from jehmco.com, great people, and they're in NJ so they can overnight it to you.

ok thank you i hope to get more feedback soon

[Second Hand Pat]

The fish in question is the lower left corner (upper left if the photo was upright)? This could be a bacterial infection. Is the fish too buoyant? If so I wonder about its swim bladder. No expert here but if you decide to try Kanamycin here's a link, http://www.angelsplus.com/MedsAntibiotic.htm. First item on the list.
Pat

[Christian74]

The fish in question is the lower left corner (upper left if the photo was upright)? This could be a bacterial infection. Is the fish too buoyant? If so I wonder about its swim bladder. No expert here but if you decide to try Kanamycin here's a link, http://www.angelsplus.com/MedsAntibiotic.htm. First item on the list.
Pat

Hello pat do u recommend i use this chemical?

[Second Hand Pat]

I would try 24 hours of espom salts which you could do if you decide to order the Kanamycin. As far as recommending you do that I not really sure. PM Al and see what he thinks. Link this thread so he knows what to look at.
Pat

[brewmaster15]

Christian, I would advise the Kanamycin sulfate as Pat mentioned and additionally Metronidazole. Dose these 2 medications together. From the symptoms and the pictures...It looks like the fish are suffering from an internal bacterial infection. My guess is they ingested rotted food...its possible the Beefheart is the culprit as it can be messy and can spoil...but thats just a guess.

In the meanwhile I would dose the tank with 1 tablespoon epsom salt per 10 gals water as it may help with the bloating and let the fish pass out any bad food.

hth,
al

[Christian74]

Christian, I would advise the Kanamycin sulfate as Pat mentioned and additionally Metronidazole. Dose these 2 medications together. From the symptoms and the pictures...It looks like the fish are suffering from an internal bacterial infection. My guess is they ingested rotted food...its possible the Beefheart is the culprit as it can be messy and can spoil...but thats just a guess.

In the meanwhile I would dose the tank with 1 tablespoon epsom salt per 10 gals water as it may help with the bloating and let the fish pass out any bad food.

hth,
al

thank you al and i can treat both these chemicals together? also i ordered my beef heart from discus hans and i dont believe it could of been from his food it came in the mail still frozen and i have other fish eating it too with no problems.

[brewmaster15]

thank you al and i can treat both these chemicals together? also i ordered my beef heart from discus hans and i dont believe it could of been from his food it came in the mail still frozen and i have other fish eating it too with no problems.


Hi Christian,
You can treat them both together. The Beefheart itself may be fine Christian, but it can foul the water and if a pathogenic bacteria gets established, the fish then eat the food and can get sick. Do you thaw the Beefheart or just throw it in frozen?


al

[Christian74]

Hi Christian,
You can treat them both together. The Beefheart itself may be fine Christian, but it can foul the water and if a pathogenic bacteria gets established, the fish then eat the food and can get sick. Do you thaw the Beefheart or just throw it in frozen?


al

i thaw it out first do i do water changes with these medicines. Im unsure how to treat them thank you

[brewmaster15]

Christian,
Theres no need to thaw out frozen foods, it can just be thrown into the tank frozen..especially Beefheart mix. When it thaws, it can be messier and is more prone to us forgetting its thawing and then feeding. The Tank water is warm enough where it thaws before they eat it.

Generally we medicate the fish after we do a large water change...and treat them daily like this. The medications you buy may have other directions than this, but that is what I and many others here would do.

hth,
al

[Second Hand Pat]

Christian, kanamycin can affect your bio so watch for that or move fish to a QT.
Pat

[Christian74]

so i should take out carbon and pads? and should i feed as i medicated and what doses should i do fro 55 gallon if you guys recommend to do it different than the bottle?

[Christian74]

the salt alone would do they job?

[brewmaster15]

Christian,
Definetly take out the carbon...it removes medications.

As for dosing, please report back here after you get the medications...best we know exactly what you have.

Salt must be epsom salt, not table salt...epsom is magnesium sulphate...get it at drug stores.

al

[Christian74]

Christian,
Definetly take out the carbon...it removes medications.

As for dosing, please report back here after you get the medications...best we know exactly what you have.

Salt must be epsom salt, not table salt...epsom is magnesium sulphate...get it at drug stores.

al

thank you do u think the epsome salt would do the trick or i should order the two medications aswell

[strawberryblonde]

This is an aside, everyone else is better at recommending meds for your current problems. Personally, I'd add the epsom salt immediately to try to help the bloat that's visible in at least 3 of the discus in the picture, then add the meds when you get them.

In the meantime, I noticed that your tank is overstocked at this point. Therefore, a 50% WC daily isn't enough to keep the water quality where it needs to be in order to keep immune systems strong.

If it was me, I'd up the water changes to 90% daily until you can place the discus into a larger tank. Hmm, I also want to add that when I do feed frozen beefheart, I feed it about 30 minutes prior to a water change so that I can be sure that I'm syphoning out any and all leftover bits of food. Beefheart fouls very quickly in the warm temps of a discus tank.

Last thing, do you use a prefilter on the intake of your filter? If not, you might want to check carefully to be sure that there isn't any rotting beefheart in the filter media. (I had this problem during my first 2 weeks of keeping discus and when I realized how much food was trapped in the canister I promptly added prefilters).

[Christian74]

overstocked with 8 discus in a 55 gallon?

[brewmaster15]

thank you do u think the epsome salt would do the trick or i should order the two medications aswell

Epsom salt is just a laxative..it will allow the fish to pass out any wastes that in its digestive track... At this point you most likely need an antibiotic ( the white feces and bloating is a good indicator.So I would order it...and treat with epsom salt for now.It should help with the bloating and may buy you time.

al

[Christian74]

Epsom salt is just a laxative..it will allow the fish to pass out any wastes that in its digestive track... At this point you most likely need an antibiotic ( the white feces and bloating is a good indicator.So I would order it...and treat with epsom salt for now.It should help with the bloating and may buy you time.

al

ok so ill be ordering the two chemicals today and your saying to treating both together?

[Christian74]

on jehmco they have 100 grams and 500 grams of metro. and 50 and 100 grams of the kanamycin am i gonna be needinf that much of each? just checking before i order more than i need

[brewmaster15]

ok so ill be ordering the two chemicals today and your saying to treating both together?

Yes, though its not generally good to mix meds, These two are often used together for internal infections of Discus and work well together. The Metro deals with protozoans like Hexamita but is also effective on some anaerobic bacterias.

hth,
al

[strawberryblonde]

overstocked with 8 discus in a 55 gallon?

Yes, the general rule of thumb is 1 discus per 10 gallons of water. It's not quite as much of a concern for juvenile discus, but once they reach 5"-6" they are considered to be adults/nearly adults and do require the larger volumes of water.

For 8 discus the bare minimum, considering that you also have cories in the tank, would be an 80-90 gallon tank.

[Christian74]

Yes, the general rule of thumb is 1 discus per 10 gallons of water. It's not quite as much of a concern for juvenile discus, but once they reach 5"-6" they are considered to be adults/nearly adults and do require the larger volumes of water.

For 8 discus the bare minimum, considering that you also have cories in the tank, would be an 80-90 gallon tank.

thank you for ur input idk if im gonna be able to get my hands on this medicine in time. Terrible the time and effort i put into these fish for them to get sick like this

[Christian74]

here are the fish right after a 60% water change just now
88841

[Christian74]

they all get there color back except the one who was upside down today and he usually looks fine every other day. the darkest one in the corner i just watched go to the bathroom looked normal color not white. its strange only three dont seem right the 1 tefe that was upside down, the big heckle doesnt eat and the dark heckle was just almost black before the water change but again his feces look normal.

[MadMatt]

they all get there color back except the one who was upside down today and he usually looks fine every other day. the darkest one in the corner i just watched go to the bathroom looked normal color not white. its strange only three dont seem right the 1 tefe that was upside down, the big heckle doesnt eat and the dark heckle was just almost black before the water change but again his feces look normal.
Do you have a test kit yet???
We really need to know you readings.

[rickztahone]

In all honesty, most of your discus look like they are dealing with health issues. You are getting some great advice from none other than the owner of this site. Were I in your shoes, the meds would have been ordered already and done an epsom salt bath as suggested earlier. The longer you delay, the more likely you are to loosing discus.

[Christian74]

In all honesty, most of your discus look like they are dealing with health issues. You are getting some great advice from none other than the owner of this site. Were I in your shoes, the meds would have been ordered already and done an epsom salt bath as suggested earlier. The longer you delay, the more likely you are to loosing discus.

i did the salt treatment already and have the metro on the way.

[rickztahone]

i did the salt treatment already and have the metro on the way.

Only the Metro?

[MadMatt]

Only the Metro?

I have to agree with Rick, you should treat with both meds (as recommended by other members).

Christian,
You are receiving great advice from very experienced discus keepers and breeders alike. I would take there advice to the fullness of what it was given. I have asked for help before and the advice I took to heart and inplimented it to the "T", it came out very succesful.
When such advice that's given from such experienced members I would advise you really consider where it's coming from and really listen closely, these people really know their stuff and their passion is beyond, anything you would receive anywhere else.
Any news on your water test kit?
You really need to know your water parameters!

[alron2]

How are the fish doing now?
Ron

[DISCUS STU]

From what I'm looking at this post should probably be moved to the Emergency Room where more qualified keepers with 1000+ posts can give you some better answers. w/o enough experience any of these guesses could make matters worse.

[Rudustin]

It always get's me a little crazy when someone doesn't let us know, after good advice given from our members, how the fish have faired! Rufus