6am water changing blues

[ericNH]

I'm up at this ungodly hour because I have to work early today, and as a result I have to do my water change even earlier. I should be sleeping right now, for several more hours. What I go through for my discus...

[twocat]

Been there, done that. Once I got off of work at 2 am did water changes and had to leave for work again at 7:30.

Mark

[ericNH]

Glad to see someone is out there in the great void to hear me whine...Thx! :)

[John_Nicholson]

Sleeping at that late hour? I am already at work and I live an hour from here....LOL.

-john

[dragon1974]

Have you no shame, I got up this morning at 4 AM to do the WC on my tanks

[ericNH]

I have no shame, or very little. And I freely admit it. I usually sleep till 9 or 10 am, roll out of bed, and I'm sipping coffee and playing with my fish until naptime at 1. Then I go to work at 3-ish.

[doublediscusjack]

Been there; done that, until one day, I "saw the light," and installed piping; even made my own special "Discus" aquariums, all square, 40 to 60 gallons each, with each having the four side bottoms tapered down, similar to a funnel, where tank waste tends to settle, form, going into a large PVC outlet pipe at that precise point, with valve on each, so that to drain some or all of tank water, along with all settled solid waste, all one must do is open one valve per tank. Floats in each tank, "sense" the lowered water level, and trigger a pump in water storage tank (water pre-treated/pre-heated) to turn on and fill tank slowly. So one can quickly; simply turn a single valve at the bottom of each tank, drain and refill that tank while almost sleeping---works like a charm. Now, grasshopper, that is the only way to do it right, and to enjoy doing water changes. Look, grasshopper, if you are going to raise Discus, spend the time and money to do it right in the beginning, so the rest of your discus adventure is as simple and enjoyable as it gets.

[ericNH]

Thank you Jack! Very cool setup it sounds like you got there. Your advice is well-received :)

I've been slowly, albeit reluctantly, coming to the conclusion I've got to upgrade to a plumbed solution. I'm reluctant because I've only got the one big tank, and I think I would like to implement a plumbed solution when I get more tanks, this way I can be sure to make it scalable to however many tanks I wish to support. I'm pretty sure that one day I *will* build a plumbed system, and when I do, yours will be one of the first posts I refer to!

[ericNH]

So Jack, are your tanks shaped kinda' like upside-down pyramids? Brilliant!

[dragon1974]

I have no shame, or very little. And I freely admit it. I usually sleep till 9 or 10 am, roll out of bed, and I'm sipping coffee and playing with my fish until naptime at 1. Then I go to work at 3-ish.

LOL, nice. Well I was kidding, not everyone has time for the hobby and the only time I have recently is @ 4 am before work. It takes me an hour to empty/refill and prep for the next day on 5 20 gals and a 46 gal. Then I sit with them for 20 mins to make sure everyone is on the up and up, then I get ready for work. I like having discus even if it I have to get up at that ungodly hour. Have fun with the hobby and don't let it take over life LOL.

[ericNH]

4 am water changes! That is soo early - I would come home at that hour during my misspent youth lol :) Thx for the encouragement.

[doublediscusjack]

So Jack, are your tanks shaped kinda' like upside-down pyramids? Brilliant!
______________________
Yes, I think, though I must say that I have never built a pyramid, so not exactly sure. More information: The sides of my home garage made "low budget" tanks are, as I mentioned, square; not tapered, mostly because Discus love square tanks, especially for breeding tanks (recently learned that Andrew Soh, who wrote what I think are best, most informative, Discus books ever written to date, says same thing, that Discus prefer square tanks; which I found to be true over 20 years ago). To ease the build and cost, all my tanks are made from exterior plywood, square, with top panel installed, screwed, to all four sides, for structural strength; center of that top panel cut out, leaving only about a two inch "trim" around top four sides. Holes are drilled in various places along outer edge of this top panel trim, for heater cords, filter tubing, etc. I use only one panel of glass, thick glass for structural strength, on whole tank, for the front of tank, by simply, after "box" is built, cutting out that front section, leaving a "trim" of plywood around outer perimeter of that front panel---much the same as done for the top panel. The major design difference with my special "Discus" tank design, is the bottom. The bottoms of my special design tanks, are not flat, as found on all glass and plexiglass, plastic, aquariums today, but instead, are tapered down, from all four sides of the tanks square sides, to about a two inch square flat piece at center of bottom, where a PVC pipe, about two inch diameter, is fit in, whereby the water drains, through, with large PVC valve just below this PVC pipe fit into the center bottom of each tank. Just below each PVC valve is a large dia. hose fit in, to allow drain water to drain to sewer piping. In other words, the bottom of each tank resembles a funnel, though a square funnel,which allows fish waste and uneaten food, etc. to collect and be removed easily, by simply cracking open a single valve at the base of each tank bottom. So, these plywood structures are built as explained above, and covered completely, inside and outside, by several heavy layers, coats, of fiberglass resin, bought from hardware store (this process makes tanks extremely structurally strong, seals it completely; making the interior and exterior waterproof and safe for fish habitation, once completely cured). Now, once that is done, the final chore is to run a good bead of silicone sealer around interior perimeter of front cut out panel, and press in, from the inside of tank, your plate glass, pre-cut to size. An added asset of such a tank, is that it retains heat better than does glass, so Discus heating cost over time, which can be substantial, especially for those living in cold climates, is less than it is for same size all glass tanks. Such tanks could conceivably be constructed from all fiberglass, or even plexiglass, though, I am sure, construction costs would be higher than all wood ones. Sorry, I can't show you any pictures of them, because I am now in my 70s, and haven't yet graduated to using any cameras/scanners, for computer posting of pictures--have yet to post any pictures online at all, so not sure I even want to "go there." I have no cameras, hate cameras, and not anxious to get any either, so words will have to suffice.

[doublediscusjack]

Oh, I overlooked mentioning, that I have, for occasionally fitting in, a piece of plastic square "egg crate," or whatever they call it, as made to be used in fluorescent lighting fixtures, to slip into inside bottom of each tank, to allow a "flat bottom" surface that will still drain through and into my tapered bottoms, without losing any of its original design functioning. This is for allowing spawning cones, etc. to sit on flat surface at bottom. Also, I have sections of properly sized colored glass sections, with glued on foam sections around outer edges, for occasionally fitting tightly inside bottoms, over the "egg crate" plastic, to block, temporarily, the possibility of very young fry falling below to get "lost" in tapered funnel like bottoms. This allows tanks with great flexibility, to enable tanks for breeding, spawning, caring for extremely small young, and for later growing up young Discus.

[ericNH]

doublediscusjack, thank you so much for the detailed response! I am blown away by the facts that a) you can make tanks primarily out of wood! and b) the design is so well thought-out! You've got all the bases covered. Truly one of the more intersting posts I've read in this forum. God I love it when my brain just sizzles over an idea that seems so new and completely unorthodox. What I mean is unorthodox to me - I never in a million years would've though about constructing a tank system mostly out of wood. Totally cool. I salute you!

[ericNH]

So today I went to do my water change at about 2 hours ago and found the water overheated to about 92F. So I drained somewhere between a third of it and a half of it and refilled with cold water from the garden hose. Which it turns out overcooled it to about 82F. Its just now at my tank temp (85F).

Crikey. :crazy:

[aalbina]

So today I went to do my water change at about 2 hours ago and found the water overheated to about 92F. So I drained somewhere between a third of it and a half of it and refilled with cold water from the garden hose. Which it turns out overcooled it to about 82F. Its just now at my tank temp (85F).

Crikey. :crazy:

Sounds like an ordeal. Be careful with your average garden hose, often they have anti-fungicide in them which can harm your fish. A white drinking water hose (sold usually for RVs) would be a safe option.

Adam

[musicmarn1]

Ok now show me this how to make it step by step please!! I'm in





Been there; done that, until one day, I "saw the light," and installed piping; even made my own special "Discus" aquariums, all square, 40 to 60 gallons each, with each having the four side bottoms tapered down, similar to a funnel, where tank waste tends to settle, form, going into a large PVC outlet pipe at that precise point, with valve on each, so that to drain some or all of tank water, along with all settled solid waste, all one must do is open one valve per tank. Floats in each tank, "sense" the lowered water level, and trigger a pump in water storage tank (water pre-treated/pre-heated) to turn on and fill tank slowly. So one can quickly; simply turn a single valve at the bottom of each tank, drain and refill that tank while almost sleeping---works like a charm. Now, grasshopper, that is the only way to do it right, and to enjoy doing water changes. Look, grasshopper, if you are going to raise Discus, spend the time and money to do it right in the beginning, so the rest of your discus adventure is as simple and enjoyable as it gets.

[doublediscusjack]

" I never in a million years would've though about constructing a tank system mostly out of wood. Totally cool. I salute you! "
___________________
Making wooden aquarium tanks is certainly not my idea. I first learned about it over 25 years ago, when guys were enthusiastically building 100 gallon tanks out of a single 4 x8 foot sheet of exterior plywood, if I recall correctly, built along same lines as I built mine. However, the tank bottom design was my idea, and boy, does it work well. Today, most guys are too darn lazy to even consider doing such things. That is just one idea; I have numerous ideas built into what I do, including a foolproof method for artificially raising/feeding newly swimming Discus fry. When Jack Wattley was fooling around with his white enameled hospital pan method, for artificially raising fry, changing water at least four or more times a day in each pan, I had in use my homemade system, with no water changes needed at all-----containers, with fine mesh bottom sections in each, and an extremely small stream of fresh water from very large exterior Discus tank, running into each fry container, refreshing the water in each small container with the young fry, no water fouling was ever an issue, no matter how much or how often you fed fry. Most of this system, I still keep secret, but on this website, if you really look, you will see a system described much like mine, that I developed over 20 years ago. Remember, most of the time, there is a better way of doing most everything, if you just think it through---too many guys don't think for themselves; are content with simply copying what others are doing.

[doublediscusjack]

Ok now show me this how to make it step by step please!! I'm in
________________________
If you will look at my post above, where I explain how to build the plywood "box" for each tank (I used 3/4 thickness exterior plywood, but have known friends who used interior plywood---since the whole is covered entirely with fiberglass resin, the plywood is sealed anyway, so exterior or interior plywood matters little); box is glued (waterproof glue) and screwed together, you will have a pretty good idea how each tank is built.

[ericNH]

Adam thanks for the tip about the garden hose. It's my main water line to the tank room. I put a nozzle on it a couple of days ago, now i can just leave it on. I don't have to drag that hose in and out of the boiler room any more :) Another +1 for ease of tank maintenance! But I'll keep a sharp eye on my fish - if things start going all pear-shaped I'll replace that hose immediately. I've been using for a week now, from the time I started daily 50% wc's, and so far my fish seem okay. Better than okay - they've been *HUNGRY* this past week, and I'm stuffing them like thanksgiving turkeys on beefheart haha :cheesy:

And Jack, I continue to be amazed by your experience. You're light years ahead of me man. And that's not even taking into account the carpentry. How on earth did you fit all those precisely-angled shapes together, strong enough to hold water and last? I'm picturing beveled edges, support struts, and a nebulous cloud of i-don't-even-know-what to craft it all together. That's simply beyond me. Wish I could see that operation of yours.

[doublediscusjack]

Adam thanks for the tip about the garden hose. It's my main water line to the tank room. I put a nozzle on it a couple of days ago, now i can just leave it on. I don't have to drag that hose in and out of the boiler room any more :) Another +1 for ease of tank maintenance! But I'll keep a sharp eye on my fish - if things start going all pear-shaped I'll replace that hose immediately. I've been using for a week now, from the time I started daily 50% wc's, and so far my fish seem okay. Better than okay - they've been *HUNGRY* this past week, and I'm stuffing them like thanksgiving turkeys on beefheart haha :cheesy:

And Jack, I continue to be amazed by your experience. You're light years ahead of me man. And that's not even taking into account the carpentry. How on earth did you fit all those precisely-angled shapes together, strong enough to hold water and last? I'm picturing beveled edges, support struts, and a nebulous cloud of i-don't-even-know-what to craft it all together. That's simply beyond me. Wish I could see that operation of yours.
___________________________________

Adam thanks for the tip about the garden hose. It's my main water line to the tank room. I put a nozzle on it a couple of days ago, now i can just leave it on. I don't have to drag that hose in and out of the boiler room any more :) Another +1 for ease of tank maintenance! But I'll keep a sharp eye on my fish - if things start going all pear-shaped I'll replace that hose immediately. I've been using for a week now, from the time I started daily 50% wc's, and so far my fish seem okay. Better than okay - they've been *HUNGRY* this past week, and I'm stuffing them like thanksgiving turkeys on beefheart haha :cheesy:

And Jack, I continue to be amazed by your experience. You're light years ahead of me man. And that's not even taking into account the carpentry. How on earth did you fit all those precisely-angled shapes together, strong enough to hold water and last? I'm picturing beveled edges, support struts, and a nebulous cloud of i-don't-even-know-what to craft it all together. That's simply beyond me. Wish I could see that operation of yours.
________________________________
Actually, the angles of the four tapering bottom pieces, and their construction wasn't as horrible a chore as it seems. The bottom line is that the final product works, as I have had the tanks now slightly over 20 years, without a leak or problem. I do recall that I too feared that the bottom corners / edges would not hold up with the water weight, etc., but what I did was "keep it simple" in taking on the chore of building that unique bottom: I concentrated first on just one seam, the seam securing together one side of two edges, say one side and one back tapered section, cut it to get angles and tapers right, as a practice seam, and corrected any errors made in those angles, as needed. Anyway, I got to point that I knew, from this experimental cutting and piecing together, needed angles to cut the wood, so all other edges were cut and done same way as that initial edge I worked out earlier. Remember, the plywood was 3/4" thickness, so that helped, as I wasn't dealing with anything too thin. So, once proper angles and bevels were worked out, it was a simple matter of cutting all pieces, gluing and screwing them all together. Remember too, that everything received several final coats of fiberglass resin, and if you have never worked with that, trust me, it makes wood stronger than hell. Remember, it is used, or was used at one time, extensively, in boat building. My dad made a wooden boat when I was only a kid, and covered it in fiberglass; once we hit a boulder with that boat, and it only scratched it. Remember, fiberglass is used in some auto. bodies too. As long as the fiberglass coating is not broken so water can enter, it makes for super waterproofing anything, and is super tough and strong. I am not blowing smoke up your dress, either----LOL. No "support struts" at all needed on bottom anywhere. Boat builders would fully understand exactly what I am talking about, and trying to convey. Most anybody, with only basic skills, could build a wooden box, cut out the top and front (front for fitting in plate glass, and top for putting in fish/food, heaters/filter lines, whatever, making box any size they desired (I knew a lot of guys who were building 100 gallon tanks, and a few select characters who built 200 gallon plywood tanks too). Most guys with little to no skill, could mix fiberglass resin and coat whole thing inside and outside (secret is to mix only small amount at a time, or it could set up on you in your mixing can before you lay it down on box---LOL) So, if you can do all that, but fear making type of bottom I suggest here, you could find a woodworker or boat builder in your area, to help you construct the tapered bottom. Woodworking these days is a common hobby, so it shouldn't be hard to find someone who could and would help you put together tapered bottom, as I describe.

[Jimambroz]

Reading this thread makes want to drag out the table saw, ;-)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ericNH]

doublediscusjack, I'm picturing your tank shape as something like this:

83340

Is that about right?

[doublediscusjack]

doublediscusjack, I'm picturing your tank shape as something like this:

83340

Is that about right?
_______________________________
Bingo, you got it; that is about right. My tanks are a little deeper than your drawing shown, maybe about 1/3rd again deeper, BUT one could make them as deep or shallow as one wanted; no problem. Also, my tapered bottoms are not as inclined as your drawing shows; not as deep a bottom; maybe about half the depth of your drawing bottom. The four sides of my bottom, as your drawing, go down to a square bottom piece, about 2 inch diameter, where a PVC pipe fitting goes; right below that, is the inline valve; hose attached that goes to drain. That is just how I did it; I am sure it could be modified and still function perfectly well. Now, for those of you wondering how the hell it sits on bottom? Well, I have 2x4 frame for various tanks, with only the 2x4s formed into a series of squares of appropriate size, in which these tanks sit, so they are essentially sitting on upper edges of tapered bottoms of each tank. I have, in the past, also used oak tables, like large end tables, in which I cut out the center portion, of appropriate square size so, again, these tanks sit within this sort of table, down into the hole I cut in them, so these tanks sit on the upper edges of the tapered bottoms. Remember, too, that making similar tanks, really large ones, of 100 gallons on up, is a really economical way to make them, as, for example, you need only one panel of plate glass, for the front. Actually, when you think about it, for the average aquarium, glass isn't REALLY needed in bottom of any "normal" tank, and certainly also not needed in rear of any tank; sides not glass, are also no great loss, so why spend a lot of money on glass not needed? Get creative; make your own tanks, perhaps deep enough that you incorporate sophisticated wet/dry filter system in TOP of each tank, so water rains down through small drainage holes, into aquarium, after passing through media. Such a filter, being in top of tanks, is easy to maintain, and could be done using pull up drawers filled with media. Fact is, I have built tanks with filters in top, in this manner; think it far superior to having filters in substrate at bottom of aquariums.

[ericNH]

I really like the way that tank shape works. You vacuum and drain all at once, with one simple valve. And when you add the float valves on your water return, it's all refilled automatically...Brilliant! Almost like flushing the tank's toilet haha! I could picture a bank of them side-by-side, each situated in its own square aperture in the frame/stand, maybe each housing a breeding pair, or juvenile grow-outs. I have to say, the only way I'd consider doing anything like trying to breed discus would be if I set up a system that would make tank changes so simple. Sensei, I am grasshopper.

[doublediscusjack]

I really like the way that tank shape works. You vacuum and drain all at once, with one simple valve. And when you add the float valves on your water return, it's all refilled automatically...Brilliant! Almost like flushing the tank's toilet haha! I could picture a bank of them side-by-side, each situated in its own square aperture in the frame/stand, maybe each housing a breeding pair, or juvenile grow-outs. I have to say, the only way I'd consider doing anything like trying to breed discus would be if I set up a system that would make tank changes so simple. Sensei, I am grasshopper.
__________________________________
"I really like the way that tank shape works. You vacuum and drain all at once" BINGO again. I can't recall when I vacuumed a tank; that is a joke, shouldn't be done by anyone with a brain larger than a brain in a fruit fly. Yes, one valve per tank is all it takes, and, if one wanted to go "big time," one could conceivably bank a series of tanks on one outlet valve to drain all in the bank of tanks.
" I could picture a bank of them side-by-side, each situated in its own square aperture in the frame/stand, maybe each housing a breeding pair, or juvenile grow-outs." That, grasshopper, is exactly what I am doing, and have been doing for years. Whenever I now see an aquarium with a flat bottom, I wonder what the hell I would do with such an antiquated contraption!

[ericNH]

Jack, move to New England. The house next door is for sale...

Just joking but seriously I really wish you were local. I would love it if I could just pop over to check out your systems, your fish, and just talk discus with you. I've been bittten, I have the bug for sure. I am obsessed with my tank. And the obsession is still growing. Alarming, really. I have 2 extra 29's now, I swore I would never go multiple tank, swore it more than once, and yet now I find myself dreaming up ideas on a plumbed fish room. A modest-sized one, of course....

[ericNH]

I was thinking about how to insert a pane of glass the full size of the front, such that the lip made around the front is fully backed up by the glass behind it, like a picture frame. It ocurred to me that all you have to do is lower it through the top, diagonally. Fiberglass coating, though - do you affix the glass before or after the fiberglass coating?